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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU To Think That Hunting Is More Ethical Than Golf?

170 replies

DioneTheDiabolist · 02/04/2021 23:24

I am having this discussion atm and I totally think I'm right. My reasons are:
Golf courses are a waste of land.
And water.
And chemicals.
And manpower.
Golf contributes nothing to anyone except golfers, their sponsors and bookies.

Whereas hunting needs people to look after the land, promoting conservation and natural biodiversity.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Lizziespring · 04/04/2021 08:59

The two passtimes aren't the only ones available to do outdoors, are they? If you suggested allotment gardening is more ethical than golf I'd agree with you. If you suggested more or less anything is more ethical than deliberately killing animals for pleasure, I'd agree with that too.

Dozer · 04/04/2021 09:09

What’re ‘municipal’ golf courses? Is that in the US? Are they low cost to use, for all (who know how to play golf and afford clubs)?

Land ownership/tax history is interesting, more generally. Capitalist-tastic!

Dubious of research funded by golf course owners.

DaphneDuBois · 04/04/2021 09:25

Golf courses nearly always have restaurants, bars, a shop and many staff working on them. Some are attached to hotels and are used as wedding venues etc.

JaninaDuszejko · 04/04/2021 09:27

What’re ‘municipal’ golf courses? Is that in the US? Are they low cost to use, for all (who know how to play golf and afford clubs)?

Municipal just means 'associated witha town'. I grew up in Scotland and golf is no more exclusive than any other sport, you just turn up and play at the municipal golf course just as you could turn up and swim in the pool or play on the football pitch. You can hire clubs for the day if you don't have your own set. My local comp had a golf club.

RaspberryCoulis · 04/04/2021 09:31

@Dozer

What’re ‘municipal’ golf courses? Is that in the US? Are they low cost to use, for all (who know how to play golf and afford clubs)?

Land ownership/tax history is interesting, more generally. Capitalist-tastic!

Dubious of research funded by golf course owners.

Scotland has a very different attitude to golf than England, where it's seen as an expensive hobby for the toffs, and to play you have to be a member of a pricey golf course.

In Scotland it's always been seen as a game for everyone and it's very common to have Council run courses operating on a "pay per play" basis rather than as a private club with members paying annual/monthly fees. www.west-dunbarton.gov.uk/leisure-parks-events/dalmuir-golf-course/ is close to me - costs a tenner.

There are municipal courses elsewhere in the UK too, I know there are some on the Wirral, and in the Manchester area too.

earlydoors42 · 04/04/2021 09:33

You think people who work in conservation are likely to hunt? Erm no.

LostToucan · 04/04/2021 09:36

@Dozer

What’re ‘municipal’ golf courses? Is that in the US? Are they low cost to use, for all (who know how to play golf and afford clubs)?

Land ownership/tax history is interesting, more generally. Capitalist-tastic!

Dubious of research funded by golf course owners.

Municipal courses are council owned golf courses where anyone can turn up and pay and play - there are still plenty of them about across the UK.
LostToucan · 04/04/2021 09:40

Raspberry there’s still a good number of municipal courses in the south of England too. It’s a shame that the English have this idea that it’s just a game for rich old white men in red trousers.

DrMaryMalone · 04/04/2021 10:18

Being married to a golf course manager with over 30 years in the industry I feel I can comment on the golf course aspect of this. Starting with the disclaimer that there are good and bad in all sectors and practices vary hugely not only by country but regionally too, some of the projects my husband has been involved in at his course, which is a private member club not council owned, in the last 10 years include:

Working with the woodland Trust to plant trees to replace those lost due to disease, high winds or removed as part of active tree management because they were in areas that had become too overgrown to be safely accessed.

Working with Scottish Natural Heritage to install bat boxes

Creating new Ponds to encourage amphibians and water birds

Working with a local conservation group to trap grey squirrels to preserve a small population of endangered red squirrels

Installing bird boxes

Using Natural turf treatments made from compost juices instead of chemicals where they can

Using irrigation only when needed (not a major issue in rainy Scotland!)

Leaving felled trees in situ to create habits for insects and small animals

He keeps a note of wildlife seen on course and so far this year they have had: fallow deer, red and grey squirrels, herons, foxes, ducks, frogs and toads, newts, woodpeckers, pond dippers, bats, numerous small birds, hares and rabbits, owls, buzzards and kestrels....and rabbits which are managed through shooting by a registered pest control contractor only if they become a problem but the raptors and foxes do a good job keep the numbers down. To be honest, more damaged was caused to the course by members of the public using it for recreation during lockdowns than any animals could possibly do, including dogs digging up turf, quads ridden across the course and an ice hockey team who decided the biggest green covered in 3 inches of ice was fair game fir then to practice on....all of which has required the use of more manpower, mechanical equipment and chemicals to fix. This is a course on the outskirts of a city next to a housing estate.

Grants are available to courses who wish to increases biodiversity and improve their environmental practice, be that through creating habits or using Reed bed systems to clean waste water so it can be reused. Another course locally is heavily involved in maintaining the sand dunes next to their land in conjunction with various groups since they are an area of scientific interest.

I work in agriculture and from my experience would counter argue that modern farming is in many cases worse than either golf or hunting. Lip service is paid to the governing schemes which relate to environmental practices but aside from a small.% of farmers who have bought into the standards completely, in most cases the absolute minimum to meet the required standard is done to tick a box with little active or enthusiastic input.

DrMaryMalone · 04/04/2021 10:24

And just to add, golf courses are not "owned" in the main. Yes there are the odd case like Trump plus big hotel chains like Mcdonald or courses associated with resort hotels like Gleneagles or Celtic Manor but the majority will be members courses owned by the members themselves, council owned municipal courses open to all or in the odd case of St Andrews, all the courses ore owned by the people of St Andrews and managed on their behalf by the Links Trust which is a charity. Local golf club members can apply and pay for playing rights, a Links Ticket, or you can play as a visitor.

BruceAndNosh · 04/04/2021 10:35

@JocastaElastic

Im tempted to suggest that the most ethical option might be to hunt golfers.
Far too easy. Golfers tend to be slow moving and gather in packs. They also congregate around watering holes /bars
UCOinaUCG · 04/04/2021 10:45

Well said @DrMaryMalone I live in St Andrews right by a golf course and I can see with my own eyes the biodiversity and the ways in which the green keepers use techniques to ensure the golf course is well managed but without damaging the ecosystem.

DrMaryMalone · 04/04/2021 10:51

@UCOinaUCG hi fellow Fifer! I'm East Neuk born and now living in the village out the High/Low Road. DH has worked on The Links and specifically the Old Course and in places that high profile they have to be world leaders in the industry. Having the R&A on the doorstep helps!

UCOinaUCG · 04/04/2021 10:59

@DrMaryMalone Hello! I am not far from you. I live by the golf course owned by the big hotel not the links. It's a lovely place to live!

HerLadySheep · 04/04/2021 11:03

Our local golf club is a wildlife haven with otters, owls, bats, pheasants, muntjacs and 100's of birds regularly seen, and it's all watered with grey water.
Boring game but I can't criticise their ecological credentials.

DrMaryMalone · 04/04/2021 11:07

@UCOinaUCG I know where you mean. It's lovely up there. Sorry for derailing the thread slightly but I've worked 2 jobs in the town associated with golf, at the big hotel and at the museum plus at 2 other clubs in Fife. For areas like this, the Home of Golf, it is a major source of employment either directly or through associated tourism and services. Without the local golf courses the area would see much higher unemployment especially of young people.

MintyMabel · 04/04/2021 11:35

Golf is worth £4.3 billion to the economy. Not so pointless in that respect.

Golf courses are an environmental waste of space and probs more snobby than most grassroots hunts ever were/are

You've never played golf then? There are (as with any leisure activity) high end clubs where you pay a lot for membership, But there are also plenty of public courses and lower priced clubs with pay to play access. The people I know who play golf are not snobby people, they just enjoy playing golf. Most of the kids who played golf where I grew up weren't the rich kids from the big houses.

The kids who went hunting we're definitely the rich kids from the big houses.

As for the environment, people's pointless garden lawns and over designed gardens full of hard landscaping, lighting and furniture are far worse for the environment than golf courses.

DrMaryMalone · 04/04/2021 11:57

Just going back to the OP, I can only assume your experience of golf is big televised championships like the Masters since you think golf only benefits golfers, their sponsors and bookies. A few people I think would disagree with you are:

The guy in his 70s whose twice weekly round of golf with his friends is the only thing getting him out the house
The parents who give up their free time to help with junior coaching sessions and summer camps because they are passionate about it
The families who have weddings, funeral wakes, anniversary parties at their clubs at minimal cost
The people on club social committees who organise kids Christmas parties and Easter egg hunts
The kids who benefit from grassroots training and socialising
The people working in an industry which gives them the opportunity to travel the world if they want or be close enough to work to walk daily if they don't
The widows who donate trophies and scholarships to clubs to honour their late partners

Most golf clubs bar the exclusive kind are really little micro communities.

DioneTheDiabolist · 04/04/2021 12:31

Thanks for the interesting discussion everyone.
Happy Easter.Easter Smile

OP posts:
Dozer · 04/04/2021 17:06

V interesting posts about golf. Seem to be some big differences between places / countries with respect to ownership, cost, access and so on.

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