Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU To Think That Hunting Is More Ethical Than Golf?

170 replies

DioneTheDiabolist · 02/04/2021 23:24

I am having this discussion atm and I totally think I'm right. My reasons are:
Golf courses are a waste of land.
And water.
And chemicals.
And manpower.
Golf contributes nothing to anyone except golfers, their sponsors and bookies.

Whereas hunting needs people to look after the land, promoting conservation and natural biodiversity.

AIBU?

OP posts:
NinePremium · 03/04/2021 07:23

This reply has been deleted

Withdrawn at the user's request

MinesAPintOfTea · 03/04/2021 07:23

Not a golfer, but have been through golf courses on walks at dawn and dusk. I've seen birds, rabbits and deer on the rough, as well as herons in the stream. There are little woods scattered around most courses giving shelter, rather than open agriculture land.

As for hunting, I've seen more illegal traps on moorland. Plus it is sustaining clearing the hills of trees.

Neither is ideal, but just because the manicured moors are tussocky heather, doesn't make them any more natural than the golf courses

whenthebellsring · 03/04/2021 07:27

@SmokedDuck

Yeah, I'd agree with that OP.

Golf courses are a pretty sterile, chemical laden monoculture with very little life. Basically a dead zone environmentally speaking. And yes they do kill animals which are then often disposed of (or if poisoned may contaminate other animas though I don't think that happens so much no.)

On the other hand, hunting depends on habitats, and even when those habitats are artificially maintained there are lots of things living in them, insects, birds, mammals, amphibians. And there are plenty of hunting areas that are kept entirely natural especially outside the UK.

Lots of hunting organisations are heavily involved in conservation and it's quite common for conservation professionals to be hunters too.

As for the fact that hunters kill animals - every wild animal dies, most of them die pretty young. They die of a few things - they are killed and eaten (probably the best option,) they die of disease or parasites (not so nice), or starvation and exposure (also not so nice). Hunting that isn't beyond what the population can sustain doesn't change that.

This is an interesting perspective. I was prepared to say YABU to the OP but had to read the posts first and you may have changed my mind - though I'm still reading and someone may make a more compelling argument. Grin

I still don't like hunting for sport. For food is different.

Temp023 · 03/04/2021 07:29

Don’t care, don’t care. DH off to play for first time since Christmas, so happy for Him. Grin

LostToucan · 03/04/2021 07:31

Golf courses are a pretty sterile, chemical laden monoculture with very little life. Basically a dead zone environmentally speaking.

This is demonstrably utter rubbish.

whenthebellsring · 03/04/2021 07:45

@CloudFormations

Do you expect this question to have an ascertains le answer OP? It won’t, because it depends on how you prioritise various wrongdoings, and people will do that differently depending on their personal feelings. For some, the deliberate killing of an animal will always be wrong, therefore hunting is worse. For others, land wastage may be a bigger issue. Neither is wrong - it’s just a matter of opinion.

Unless you reduce your question down to a really granular level to enable it to be factually determined (e.g. what causes most animal deaths, hunting or golf?) all you’ll get is a range of opinions showing other posters’ personal priorities, with no ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ about it.

Ah there it is. Been going back and forth but I agree with this the most.

Agree with @SarahAndQuack and @Rachie1973 as well...can't quote your posts.

KatieB55 · 03/04/2021 07:49

Have you actually walked around a golf course OP? Only the greens are cut very short, fairways are often quite narrow strips, there is a lot of rough! Most courses have lots of water - streams, ponds, lakes. Recycled water can be used for watering but we get plenty of rain. There are plenty of trees and plenty of wildlife. A nonsense argument!

ButIcantsitonleather · 03/04/2021 07:55

@DioneTheDiabolist

I'm not saying that hunting is problem free. I am asking: Is hunting more ethical than golf?
No it’s not. Were you hammered when you started this thread?
HikeForward · 03/04/2021 07:56

I agree OP. Many golf courses are expanses of sterile astroturf where no wildlife can live. The grass ones are mowed short, this alone destroys multiple habitats. Add fertiliser and weed killer and the removal of trees or ponds and you have even more habitat destruction. Long grass and wild flowers are vital habitats for bees, butterflies, insects, rodents, rabbits, slow worms, adders, grass snakes, amphibians in their terrestrial phase, to name a few.
Destruction of ponds angers me as so many of our native species are endangered, like great crested newts, natterjack toads, even the common frog and toad are diminishing in numbers due to habitat destruction. It’s actually illegal to build on or interfere with a GCN pond but somehow developers wiggle around it.

Thing is golf course users don’t see the destruction or think about it or patrol the course with a gun at night or dig out moles or fill in ponds or cut down trees.

Whereas hunters know they are killing. But it’s a decision, nobody’s pretending there won’t be a kill, or forming a blind eye. Every trail hunt runs the risk of getting a fox by accident. But foxes are far from endangered, and are a massive nuisance in some areas thanks to their population exploding. They spread disease too.

IME hunters are ecologically aware, promote biodiversity and land protection, understand the countryside and the importance of different habitats. At least that is my experience. Many sit on agricultural boards or support ecologist projects.

Sure a herd of horses galloping across the land and splashing through rivers, sliding off banks, jumping fences will cause a bit of damage but far less than the creation and maintenance of a golf course!

tttigress · 03/04/2021 07:57

I think you are right, assuming you eat the animals afterwards.

LadyPenelope68 · 03/04/2021 07:57

HmmBiscuit

Formulation123 · 03/04/2021 07:57

April fools....no? 🤣

Tinydinosaur · 03/04/2021 08:00

Hunting doesn't maintain biodiversity, quite the opposite. Hence all the issues around grouse Moore owners killing endangered birds of prey. Biodiversity reduces the population of the species they want to hunt, it's the opposite of what they want.
They also target the largest, most valuable members of the population because they look better on their wall.

It's also fucking vile to kill and cause pain and fear to any animal for fun.

1starwars2 · 03/04/2021 08:02

Golf course near us has been like beautiful free parkland during lockdown.
We often see deer on it, there is a resident heron and 3 large ponds as well as woodland around the edges.
There are public footpaths around the edge and across the Middle, so for me it's not wasted space.

LostToucan · 03/04/2021 08:04

@HikeForward

I agree OP. Many golf courses are expanses of sterile astroturf where no wildlife can live. The grass ones are mowed short, this alone destroys multiple habitats. Add fertiliser and weed killer and the removal of trees or ponds and you have even more habitat destruction. Long grass and wild flowers are vital habitats for bees, butterflies, insects, rodents, rabbits, slow worms, adders, grass snakes, amphibians in their terrestrial phase, to name a few. Destruction of ponds angers me as so many of our native species are endangered, like great crested newts, natterjack toads, even the common frog and toad are diminishing in numbers due to habitat destruction. It’s actually illegal to build on or interfere with a GCN pond but somehow developers wiggle around it.

Thing is golf course users don’t see the destruction or think about it or patrol the course with a gun at night or dig out moles or fill in ponds or cut down trees.

Whereas hunters know they are killing. But it’s a decision, nobody’s pretending there won’t be a kill, or forming a blind eye. Every trail hunt runs the risk of getting a fox by accident. But foxes are far from endangered, and are a massive nuisance in some areas thanks to their population exploding. They spread disease too.

IME hunters are ecologically aware, promote biodiversity and land protection, understand the countryside and the importance of different habitats. At least that is my experience. Many sit on agricultural boards or support ecologist projects.

Sure a herd of horses galloping across the land and splashing through rivers, sliding off banks, jumping fences will cause a bit of damage but far less than the creation and maintenance of a golf course!

I can only assume from this nonsense that you’ve never actually set foot on a golf course?
UCOinaUCG · 03/04/2021 08:07

I live on a golf course and it is a haven for wildlife. They try to keep the rabbit population down but that benefits all of us round here as they decimate the gardens. And they try to keep the moles population down too but don't appear to be winning this one! Everything else is abundant.

It is also good for the local economy. People are employed and golfers come and spend money on the area. In fact I live in an area where golf is one of the main attractions. Without it our town would be nothing.

Stompythedinosaur · 03/04/2021 08:09

I don't think a hobby that normalises cruelty is good at all. This is exactly the sort of rubbish that people come up with to justify hunting.

Nith · 03/04/2021 08:11

@DioneTheDiabolist

Hunting provides a living environment for flora and fauna.
Why choose golf as the comparator? Virtually any use of land that doesn't leave it wild will harm flora and fauna, including building, farming, football pitches, tennis courts, whatever. The fact of the matter is that we compromise - we don't leave all the land wild, we recognise that we need to use it for other purposes and that those purposes are valid. More people play golf than hunt, therefore more people get enjoyment out of golf courses, there's plenty of land left for flora and fauna, so what is the problem?
JaninaDuszejko · 03/04/2021 08:12

The trouble with golf courses is that while they originated as a use of unfarmable links on the coast which had it's own specific biodiversity they are now created artificially.

Sundances · 03/04/2021 08:17

They try to keep the rabbit population down but that benefits all of us round here as they decimate the gardens. And they try to keep the moles population down to

The green keepers put up signs - NO RABBITS or MOLES (or VOLESor any other burrowing animals) here and all those cute little fluffy animals live happily outside the golf course obeying the adviceHmm Hmm Hmm
Hunting kills animals that have no higher mammal so they become overpopulated -seems a good idea to me but you can't expect non country dwellers to understand.

UCOinaUCG · 03/04/2021 08:18

During lockdown our green keepers built bug hotels and a duck island for the wildlife. They do manage to trees but do it sensitively and where the tres are removed an abundance of undergrowth grows back. The wild flowers are beautiful and we have rare wild orchids which grow along the golf course. I have no idea why anyone thinks they are sterile habitats. The green keepers are trained to use methods which are not polluting and harsh. I feel privileged to have a golf course right on my doorstep.

UCOinaUCG · 03/04/2021 08:21

@Sundances

They try to keep the rabbit population down but that benefits all of us round here as they decimate the gardens. And they try to keep the moles population down to

The green keepers put up signs - NO RABBITS or MOLES (or VOLESor any other burrowing animals) here and all those cute little fluffy animals live happily outside the golf course obeying the adviceHmm Hmm Hmm
Hunting kills animals that have no higher mammal so they become overpopulated -seems a good idea to me but you can't expect non country dwellers to understand.

I don't actually understand what you are saying here?
Sundances · 03/04/2021 08:23

I think volumes of water and chemicals are part of the issue with g courses.
Lots of people enjoy golf so in that case it stays, so the myriad of less popular sports should go, how many women play any sport compared to men?

LostToucan · 03/04/2021 08:25

Hunting kills animals that have no higher mammal so they become overpopulated -seems a good idea to me but you can't expect non country dwellers to understand.

So why were one in three hunts harrier packs prior to the hunting ban?

Hmm
Sundances · 03/04/2021 08:27

They must control the animals ( keep the population down) by killing them . Hunters keep the fox and deer population down by killing them - one seems to be acceptable but the other isn't apparently!!! They are the same thing . If golf course keepers killed obviously then animal rights people would be onto them I can only assume it's done surreptitiously