To think that women don’t tend to do trades because it’s not encouraged at school?

[Merryoldgoat]

This not a bit serious thread but I’ve thought about it a bit recently.

Since we’ve had a house I’ve done a few bits of DIY at home, very simple like painting, to a bit trickier like laying laminate.

I really like it and I built a garden table during lockdown and have a few projects that I’ve got in the pipeline.

I get so much pleasure out of the woodwork in particular and I remember briefly doing woodwork at junior school and loving it.

It never occurred to me I could take it further. I went to an all-girls high school and the only practical stuff we did was art and cooking.

I’m not saying I’d have become a carpenter, but it’s something that’s gives me pleasure and I doubt I’m unique.

My DH hates DIY - I have painted, mounted the TV, assembled all our furniture, put up shelves, wallpapered etc without assistance but if I mention to a colleague thar I did that I’m met with real surprise and I get the feeling it’s not seen as a hobby for a woman.

YANBU - should we be encouraging girls to do more DIY and practical stuff from younger

YABU - it’s not necessary and girls will seek out whatever interests them eventually

As I said this is just a musing and not a big deal - I’m reflecting on a morning as I plan my jobs for the weekend.

You come across an incredible amount of sexism if you do. Mainly from women I'm sorry to say.

I cant say more as its outing but I'm very qualified and, on the side, doing major tradesperson job this easter.
Women I've told (I'm impressed with myself) have all been either a) it'll end in disaster or b) pitying that I cant to get afford man in to do it. Oh crystal has to do that herself. Poor crystal.
It's almost hot gossip that I'm doing this. Unkind smirky gossip.
Pissed me off so much I briefly considered changing gender.
Someone at work said 'yes, I can see' very meanly the other day, looking me up and down disgustedly, when I'd had a day doing mucky work and had gone up to say "sorry I wasn't around I've been doing...."
A man can go around in month old overalls. I get disgust for a bit of sawdust on my suit.

The men I've told have all been ok. Bit meh. (It turns out tradepersonship isn't a dark art after all.)

I've got a City and Guilds in Cabinet Making and have built my own furniture. I do a lot of DIY including fixing electrical things. I went to an all girls school a long time ago and became a professional engineer.

I was fortunate because we were encouraged to follow what we were good at and what we wanted to do. I was often in the minority in a male dominated environment but you have to be resilient and stick at it.

I don’t think trades are encouraged for either sex really, they're normally pushed at young people that are not really very academic.

Its a whole load of influences from schools, families, careers service and social media.
I think boys and girls both need a much wider appreciation of different careers and trades. Especially ones that aren't public facing and "invisible".

I think the personal safety argument is a bit of a red herring. Many trades people work in small teams or for professional rather than domestic clients. Also skilled trades need dexterity, attention to detail and teamwork.

I find that all kinds of practical skills like DIY are downgraded now, the prevailing view on MN is always don't bother you'll probably mess it up. Or "get a man in" like they are some other class. Really sad.

@Nocar

I don’t think trades are encouraged for either sex really, they're normally pushed at young people that are not really very academic.

I actually don't think they're pushed at all for the most part. I know plenty of young people who left school with few qualifications and ended up with periods of unemployment, in and out of precarious minimum wage jobs and so on (I'm only in my twenties myself). I don't personally know a single tradesperson in my kind of age group, and even friends of friends etc I can only think of one person who was a school friend of DH who he's lost touch with, and he only got into it because his step dad did it. Its a shame and I think there's real skill shortages in this country, it can be so hard to find tradespeople with availability here anyway. When we get people out they are always 40+ too, I've never personally had a younger person attend a job for me either.

One thing I will add to this conversation and I don’t know if you’ve ever worked on building sites but they are pretty miserable in winter and when you are pregnant trying to make your way around the place with a bump. The world involved can be pretty physical too, blocklaying and plastering even carpentry are not for the physically faint at heart. Electrician and plumbing and painting decorating are a little more pleasant as the houses are weathertight when they are on site.

My job only involved one-two days a week on sites max, it was definitely enough for me. The sites hours are usually 8-6 with a half day on Saturdays on some sites not the most family friendly of careers sometimes.

It is right and proper to encourage women into trades but it is definitely not for the faint hearted. I really admire those working in the trades. I wouldn’t do it.

Work involved

They're definitely more encouraged in boys - and DT should be an option in all schools, whether mixed or single sex. I have never come across a female DT teacher though.

It's an absolute failure of our education system that doesn't recognise engineering careers as being equally prestigious as academic careers. It's why Germany are good at making cars and we're shit

Yanbu. I went to an all girls school. We did a bit of electronics in year 9, which I really enjoyed and wanted tp continue woth at GCSE. However, the school wouldn't run the class because only 4 of us wanted to do it. I coyld have gone to the local college I suppose but my parents weren't very supportive of me doing anything as uncharacteristic as D&T (I was very academic and gemerally tended towards the humanities). My friemds were a bit at me when I mentioned I wanted to do electronics too and that can be quite off putting when you are a teenager.

They're definitely more encouraged in boys - and DT should be an option in all schools, whether mixed or single sex. I have never come across a female DT teacher though

You’ve got to be joking! More women than men in my dept and has always been that way. Also DT is rm, graphics, electronics, food and textiles. It’s not just woodwork.

Yes I was at an all-girls secondary school in the early 00s, our DT in yrs 7-9 was split into rotations of 4 subjects which were: Resistant Materials, Home Economics, Textiles, and oddly enough Drama. There was 1 male RM teacher and 1 male drama teacher but all the other teachers were female. I remember when we came to pick our options it was not possible for anyone to do RM as similar to PPs experience only about 5 girls in the 130 cohort wanted to do it so they wouldn't run a class. The other three did run at GCSE though and our school did offer child development and hair and beauty via a liaison with a local college but these subjects were offered strictly to a very limited cohort of girls who were also not allowed to take more than single science GCSE, i.e. girls they deemed not to be academic.

Sadly, thanks to Tony Blair's insistence that everybody should go to university, apprenticeships and trades were perceived to be for the less able.

I was an apprentice electrician in the late 80's but moved into electronics after qualifying. Any job I went for I was offered, I think they liked the idea of a token female. When I gave up work to become a stay at home mum in 2006, I was still the token female.

My dd wants to do mechanical engineering, I will be encouraging her all the way and I sincerely hope she isn't the token female if that is the path she chooses to follow.

Ive had a career in a trade and now run a construction workshop (joinery and welding) . Employees on the shop floor are a fairly even split with lots of young women applying for apprenticeship roles. Oddly people don’t seem to find women doing carpentry too odd but are often surprised to meet the female welders .

@Clymene

They're definitely more encouraged in boys - and DT should be an option in all schools, whether mixed or single sex. I have never come across a female DT teacher though.

It's an absolute failure of our education system that doesn't recognise engineering careers as being equally prestigious as academic careers. It's why Germany are good at making cars and we're shit

We are an all female DT department, only the head of department is male and he teaches graphics.

I previously worked at an all boys school, they only started offering food in 2013 and textiles wasn't and still isn't offered.

I chose my GCSE options in 2006. I was chose construction but my form tutor (male if that's important) persuaded me to do health and social care.

This is a very sore subject to me. My brothers, Uncles and male relatives are mostly all builders. Our Grandpa was a developer and self built small housing developments.
My brothers and cousins who went to work with him have all created incredible businesses, built multiple houses, blocks of flats, built their own bloody lovely houses.
The females in the family mostly didn’t want to be involved but myself and a few cousins really wanted the chance to be taken on and learn in the family like they were allowed to.
The reason we weren’t allowed was because building sites are not a place for women. It still really boils my pee because we just went along with that in the 90’s.
I can imagine it is a hard environment for women but it’s time to break those barriers.

The only reason DT isn’t an option in all schools is because this government squeezed it out.

When l started teaching in 1996 DT was in the core subjects.

@Ringshanks what a feeling!!!

The vast majority of DT teachers I know and work with are women. There was an old guard of men in their 60s until about 2010 but they've all resigned way back.

It’s not just trades - our education system is just always geared to academic achievement. I’m a great cook and desperately wanted to be a chef but was told I was too bright for catering college.

The school and my parents refused to see it as an option. I succumbed to pressure and ended up in 15 years of dead end admin before retaining to a ‘career’ I suck at.

Seriously eyeing up doing master chef to find another way in...

@miltonj this was my DDs experience, the teacher even enlisted her on health and social care because she knew best. Until I called and made a fuss.

The push towards academic options should be starting to change.
It is now legal requirement for schools to promote vocational options to all pupils - it's called the Baker clause.

I don't personally know a single tradesperson in my kind of age group

That might just be your social circles, as I know plenty of teens / early 20s in trades. It may be that sole traders are more likely to be older just because people are more likely to get some experience in a company before starting out on their own.

DD decided to get an apprenticeship, not in the trades, but she is sick of people telling her it's a shame as she could have gone to uni / she's made a mistake etc. When we were looking though it did feel that at FE/16+ there were more choices in more typical male areas of work that could lead to well-paying jobs / businesses than options most often selected by girls, DD didn't want to do hair/beauty, childcare or dental nursing and a lot of the admin roles didn't seem very substantial, but then that just reflects the under-valuing of women's work.

I’m an electrician (and female). If I had a quid for every comment about how unusual it was to see a female sparky

I've said YABU.

Absolutely it should be encouraged in so much as all children should be brought up to believe and accept that they can have any future they choose within the realms of their capability.

However, I've spent the last 10 years or so taking part in STEM events for schoolchildren and its abundantly clear that the same level of interest just isn't there, even for the very youngest groups of girls.

Whenever I ask what the children think engineering is, without fail they always basically describe a grease monkey. I find it really sad that parents are choosing not to enlighten their children. I don't blame schools so much.