To think that women don’t tend to do trades because it’s not encouraged at school?

[Merryoldgoat]

This not a bit serious thread but I’ve thought about it a bit recently.

Since we’ve had a house I’ve done a few bits of DIY at home, very simple like painting, to a bit trickier like laying laminate.

I really like it and I built a garden table during lockdown and have a few projects that I’ve got in the pipeline.

I get so much pleasure out of the woodwork in particular and I remember briefly doing woodwork at junior school and loving it.

It never occurred to me I could take it further. I went to an all-girls high school and the only practical stuff we did was art and cooking.

I’m not saying I’d have become a carpenter, but it’s something that’s gives me pleasure and I doubt I’m unique.

My DH hates DIY - I have painted, mounted the TV, assembled all our furniture, put up shelves, wallpapered etc without assistance but if I mention to a colleague thar I did that I’m met with real surprise and I get the feeling it’s not seen as a hobby for a woman.

YANBU - should we be encouraging girls to do more DIY and practical stuff from younger

YABU - it’s not necessary and girls will seek out whatever interests them eventually

As I said this is just a musing and not a big deal - I’m reflecting on a morning as I plan my jobs for the weekend.

OP - I am 49 years old, started a career in Engineering at 17 and DH is a Bricklayer who did his apprenticeship back in the late 80s. You wanted this thread to be lighthearted so I can't give you my full opinion (lol) but I will just say I believe the issues go a lot further than just lack of encouragement.

I don't think the boys are encouraged into the trades in school either are they? It's all academic stuff.

I don't understand this at all. Having a trade requires skill, training, it's needed a lot in society and can be very lucrative. There are enormous amounts of jobs- it's not just self employed domestic/ building but on the tubes, trains, telecoms I mean the list goes on and on.

Some people are better at and enjoy hands on work more. So why in the face of all of this is there not more opportunity/ info at school?

I think because the government/s don't see it as worthwhile somehow. The people who do their electrics just appear fully trained by magic.

In terms of getting more girls and women in. The strength required for some will mean more men can do it than women. But. Some women can. And that's only some of the aspects.

I think more girls don't go into it because it's so male dominated. Men who do these jobs suggest them to sons and other male children. Maybe offer opportunities. And how often do you see a woman doing these roles. Very very rarely indeed. So as a girl it's not something they see as being open to them. And also, if something is very very male dominated then you're always going to be 'different' etc and having to convince people you know your job which is draining.

So I think yes all these roles and jobs need more visibility in schools and the pathways into training etc should be included in the same way as other things.

There is absolutely no reason why women should not train to become tradespeople and earn their living as plumbers, decorators, mechanics etc

Absolutely agree, although from a practical perspective, I know as a woman I wouldn't feel particularly comfortable attending people's private homes for work on my own not knowing who's in the house or whether it's safe.

I'd personally feel much safer working for a company on larger projects.

Not to discourage people, though - I'm glad you're enjoying the DIY, OP!

DT teacher here- all our children do all subjects for 3 years. I don't know any school doing it differently- except for narrowing choices later on. It's all on offer.
I do think that we don't value these skills enough generally as a society.

I did hairdressing when I left school which I guess is a "trade" of sorts. Not everyone can do it and it does take a lot of training.
But yes I agree with you, more trades should be discussed with girls like motor mechanics, engineering etc as they may not even realise it's an option

As a teenager I would have been absolutely mortified and intimidated to go into any male dominated environment. I could never have trained in a male dominated trade even if I had been encouraged to do so.

I don't know in my DDs case her head of year actively discouraged her and even went as far as changing construction to health and social care when DD submitted her choices for GCSE.

A group of girls in my class objected to being forced to do cookery and needlework whilst the boys got to do woodwork and metalwork.

You are forgetting the boys who wanted to become chefs but were forced to do woodwork. It works both ways.

At dc's school there are regular events promoting STEM or D&M to girls. Never heard of one promoting fashion and textiles or food tech to boys. Schools need both to complete the picture. Girls need to see boys comfortable choosing fashion/food tech if they want to as much as they need to feel comfortable choosing what were traditionally "boy" subjects if they want to.

Schools have changed since we were at them and all subjects are open to all. You will probably find what dc see and hear among their peers, friends and families will influence them much more than anything the school says.

It’s generally not encouraged anywhere, not just school! I regularly encourage all of mine (both boys and girls) to learn a trade. I wish I had more than anything, it’s not quite as simple or as easy as learning to do it now, I wish I could afford to!

A few years ago I heard about an all female firm of plumbers.
They were called “Stopcocks”!
Women like that are potentially inspirational- they should be touring schools giving career talks.

@Justlovedogs

OP - I am 49 years old, started a career in Engineering at 17 and DH is a Bricklayer who did his apprenticeship back in the late 80s. You wanted this thread to be lighthearted so I can't give you my full opinion (lol) but I will just say I believe the issues go a lot further than just lack of encouragement.

I’m sure! I know the obstacles are more than just lack of exposure and encouragement.

As I said it’s not a haunting thought. It’s just as an adult I’ve found so many things I’ve liked that were even considered to be an option because I was ‘clever’ or ‘a girl’ and I think it’s a real shame because we’re constantly told the holy grail in jobs and careers is doing something you love.

I’m an accountant - it’s definitely not a labour of love 🤣

I wanted to (Dad's a carpenter, grandad was a bricklayer) and my careers advisor made me feel like it wasn't a realistic option.

I grew up learning practical stuff and can fix most things around the house so it's not all bad.

Weren’t even considered an option.

@LonginesPrime

There is absolutely no reason why women should not train to become tradespeople and earn their living as plumbers, decorators, mechanics etc

Absolutely agree, although from a practical perspective, I know as a woman I wouldn't feel particularly comfortable attending people's private homes for work on my own not knowing who's in the house or whether it's safe.

I'd personally feel much safer working for a company on larger projects.

Not to discourage people, though - I'm glad you're enjoying the DIY, OP!

This^^ If you advertise as a female tradespeople, even catering to women only, what is to stop a predator luring you into a house to work for his 'elderly mum' then you are trapped alone with him. You would need to work with a partner at all times which is not always practical.

I find that in modern education 'trades' aren't encouraged at all.
Yes the government bought in more apprenticeships but there is a bit of a snobby attitude from a lot of parents towards them. No idea why.
I would love to see more 14+ schools that focus on trades.

I dont neccessarily think schools should focus on trades especially, but just set them out as a viable option equal to university.
At the open evenings at both high schools I've attended they boast about how many kids go to oxbridge and RG unis and A levels and uni are presented as literally the only route to take after GCSEs. Alternatives are simply not mentioned.

My DH and all his siblings have trades and none are particularly academic, but really good at all types of practical, artistic and creative (some quite niche) skills. In their generation there was an option for people who were creative or practical rather than academic.

I think there should be more options, that are potentially shorter or cheaper options than uni, and cater for all skills.

From school the only option which could become a trade was wood tech which both girls and boys did (albeit more boys). However, trade jobs weren’t discussed at all with either sex really.

Saying that, a few girls from my year at school went on to do trades like mechanics and plumbing. Just seems to be how things go. I would never discourage a girl from taking on a trade though.

I am age mid 50s plus went to a special theme school outside UK so don't see how my school experience is useful to recount.

DD (19yo) did DT competitions, the opportunity was there for her to do plenty DT, but she was more interested in science. Of 3 DSs, only one is somewhat interested in making things, so will do DT GCSE. DH is an engineer so 1/4 being practical is probably slightly disappointing for him.

We had toolshed when I was growing up but neither parent used tools well. I had to learn as an adult difference between pliers & a spanner. I'd say my parents' lack of practical skills was a key reason I have had to work hard to gain practical skill, not school's fault.

I don’t think any schools really push the trades, including typically female trades such as hair and beauty. I at a time thought about becoming a carpenter, I was then encouraged to look at being a quantity surveyor or an architect because they wrongly felt it wouldn’t be suitable for someone who isn’t academic.

At the secondary school I attended everyone studied foodtech, ceramics, electronics and resmat on rotation. We had to study a technology at GCSE, I chose electronics, it was a small group (maybe 15) but the split between boys and girls was fairly even I think.

A lot of tradies have a trade in the family.

I’m a DT teacher.

Plenty of girls do resistant materials and electronics. Boys do Textiles. They all encourage trades. Don’t write off Textiles as sewing.

I was a pattern cutter for years. This is a trade.

@Susie477

I agree, OP.

There is absolutely no reason why women should not train to become tradespeople and earn their living as plumbers, decorators, mechanics etc. Such jobs can be a lot more interesting & rewarding than working in a bloody office.

I do agree although since recently I have a prolapse, which started one year after my last baby ( otherwise I'm fit and well) I can't do heavy lifting now, it's so bloody pathetic and I try to just carry on as normal, but then I regret it. So I'm not saying women shouldn't, but men went into trades due to strength.

It works the other way too. I have a 16 year old who is taking Food and Nutrition this year at Nat 5 and then again next year for Higher. Although there is actually not much practical cookery in the class and it's a lot more about nutrition and product development, the class is almost exclusively female. Same in drama. It's a "girly" subject.

Food and nutrition is mainly boys at my school.

Oh and also agree that family links appear to be the main driver - my older child who is leaving school this summer was telling me about a girl in his year who is doing a plumbing/heating engineer apprenticeship and who has been doing loads of on the job training when schools have been off. But two of her uncles are in the trade and encouraged her into it too. Less likely that she'd have come up with the idea independently.

It's a little bit more complicated than that.
Children are socialised into separating jobs into 'girl' jobs and 'boy' jobs by the time they're 8.

It's too late to address this when they're making career decisions in their teens because by then they will already have a very fixed idea as to what jobs are suitable to them.

@RaspberryCoulis

Oh and also agree that family links appear to be the main driver - my older child who is leaving school this summer was telling me about a girl in his year who is doing a plumbing/heating engineer apprenticeship and who has been doing loads of on the job training when schools have been off. But two of her uncles are in the trade and encouraged her into it too. Less likely that she'd have come up with the idea independently.

This is very true. I research this for a living.

It is unlikely that she would have chosen another trade. If plumbing wasn't available the chances are she would have chosen a stereotypical female job.
Plumbing seemed appropriate and achievable because she knows people doing it already.