To wonder when someone will stop us from destroying the planet before it is too late?

[Ohdoleavemealone]

Last night I watched a documentary about how the biggest threat to our oceans is the fishing industry. Worse than plastics (and actually 46% of the plastic is fishing nets), worse than killing sharks for fin soup or putting animals into captivity.
The bycatch from fishing means we are killing thousands of species for the few we want. We have depleted the oceans resources and killed the seabeds with the harsh methods used.
Of course this is on top of our piles of rubbish, fuel polution etc.
We have been destroying our planet for years but have really accelerated in the last 50 years as corporate companies have no moral compass and the rest of us are just sheep. We believe that we need all the consumer driven shit they tell us and we fund the industries killing our planet.
So how does it stop? Is it too late? Do we just accept it or do we try and fight for it? Are we little people enough?

Full disclosure: I do not do enough on a small level to do my bit but I am looking for ways I can.

By the way, transport now accounts for a quarter of our domestic emissions and has barely fallen since 1990, unlike electricity production where emissions have fallen from 203.0 to 57.4 in the same period.

Surely emissions have fallen because we have switched from coal to gas.
Ok, some from windfarms and pv panels.
I find it hard to believe wind etc is going to fuel all our heating, alloyr cooking, all our manufacturing, all our transport ie every car journey. We will probably end up paying through the nose for French nuclear energy as we won't have nearly enough. And all the concrete poured for those huge wind turbines, all the hillsides ripped up for roads to and from each turbine for maintenance - conveniently ignored.

This is so depressing. None of us can say with certainty anything. But my feeling is that we are on a trajectory where a tiny few make the decisions. And they are short term decisions for profit.

There is an astounding lack of empathy from those at the top and lack of knowledge from those at the bottom. Some key policy, infrastructure and manufacturing decisions are being made with the environment in mind. But too few.

Governments are in thrall to big business. Look at porn on the Internet and unlimited smartphone use in the young. Anyone can see that will create psychological damage, but nothing will be done proactively because of their influence on governments. (Not related but an example of short term gain by companies and unwillingness of governments to protect their citizens.)

Injunctions, superinjunctions, hyperinjunctions are not just used by footballers having affairs, but by companies hiding environmental abuses. Environmental journalism is the most dangerous forms. People in developing countries are already (as also) paying for our chronic consumption of finite resources. One example is treatment of locals in the regions in africa where they get the metals for mobiles.

There is a mass extinction event going on now. I believe the majority or all of our species will die too. We live in a narcissistic world set up. There is no motivation for those who benefit to change it now. The opposite - it is accelerating.

Yes, we can all do our bit, but I believe that recycling your teabags won't make any difference compared to the infrastructure changes that are needed. It all boils down to maths at the end. I think being politically aware is probably but the most useful thing a person can do - political reform is essential if anything is to be done.

Loads of typos. Sorry on - the Monday morning commute.

It’s what I find utterly bizarre about the reaction to covid. Hysteria because of a virus that overall will probably take a few years off everyone’s lives

Yes what we are doing to the planet - longer term - ruining the lives of our grandchildren and beyond and destroying their existence .

It’s mind blowing. Barely anyone cares.

Even the right to protest peacefully about it is being removed. I hang my head in shame at what we are doing. I feel utterly powerless to stop it

Most people don't give a toss about the environment. The sheer amount of litter and dog shit polluting our local area is testimony to that.

@UhtredRagnarson and what can we all do, but play our part?

I have to say that EXtinction Rebellion utterly pissed me off - a load of ex public school gen x or Naice retired middle class with time on their hands - happily destroying the livelihoods of local working people - taxi drivers, office workers, shop owners.
They did the opposite of making me environmentally aware - I am environmentally aware I don't need that bunch messing around wasting police time.

Governments are in thrall to big business. Look at porn on the Internet and unlimited smartphone use in the young.

I don't think any Gov will get voted in if they ban porn or smartphones for the young. It's us (humans) thats to blame not just the Gov.

We've done awful things to this planet, but it will recover. We won't be around to see it, that's all

What’s with all this flagellation? We are actually pretty inconsequential to Earth.

With carbon, we are putting nothing into the atmosphere that hasn’t been there before.

Carbon dioxide IS NOT bad for the planet, it just may not be ideal for humans since we evolved in a
time of retreating glaciers.

CO2 levels were much, much higher when the dinosaurs roamed the earth and ferns covered it, they thrive in those conditions. Plants love and grow profusely with more CO2, so they’ll be even better off (and we will, initially, at least benefit from higher crop yields as CO2 rises).

Earth has been a complete ice-covered planet (snowball earth) to a magma-covered hellscape.

We are still technically in an Ice Age. Yes, we aren’t getting crushed under miles-long thick glaciers, but it’s because we are in an interglacial period.

In most of Earth’s history, we do not actually have any permanent ice/glaciers on the planet for the vast majority of time, only during Ice Ages.

We will return to a real Ice Age imminently in geological terms. In fact global warming will delay another full-on Ice Age, which all things considered, is probably better for humans.

Geologists have always had a rather different view of climate change than climate scientists do. It’s not just because they are often employed by fossil fuels industries for extraction purposes either 😎

Some of us were around 50 years ago, and yes, I believe it. Certainly those in my parents circle didn't work as many crazy hours as a lot of people do now. People had more time for leisure than many do these days. I worked less hours in my first job (46 years ago) than I did in my last full time job

Ok but you didn’t have all these wonderful time-saving machines either. I guess it was all women’s work so it didn’t count?

Geologists have always had a rather different view of climate change than climate scientists do.

And yet they agreed enough to call this era the Anthropocene.

Even if you ignore the change in temperatures, overfishing, deforestation, pollution etc are still wiping out dozens of species which is pretty damn consequential.

Ok but you didn’t have all these wonderful time-saving machines either. I guess it was all women’s work so it didn’t count?

Oh do get over yourself! We are talking about 50 years ago - not a couple of centuries.

People had more time 50 years ago because there were local jobs. People left school to work in local bank/ offices/ farms etc

What’s with all this flagellation? We are actually pretty inconsequential to Earth

That was my point. The planet will recover, but factually, humans will not be here to see it. We are a blip on the time line.

I don't mind a bit of flagellation (or actually just taking a bit of responsibility), if it improves life for the next generations, but in terms of geological time, the entire human race and all its ills are small fry.

@Sundances

I have to say that EXtinction Rebellion utterly pissed me off - a load of ex public school gen x or Naice retired middle class with time on their hands - happily destroying the livelihoods of local working people - taxi drivers, office workers, shop owners. They did the opposite of making me environmentally aware - I am environmentally aware I don't need that bunch messing around wasting police time.

Yes, they were/are a bunch of clueless, privileged idiots. The ringleaders get more air miles in a year than I have done in my entire life. What was their first action? Gluing themselves to an electric train.

When it comes down to it, people don't want to change their lifestyles. It's not just the fishing industry that's destroying the planet, it's animal agriculture as a whole but everyone puts their fingers in their ears and says lalala but bacon tho lalala or "But I do meat free Mondays!!".

I hear you, OP, and I'm sorry these threads often seem to end up as some sort of smug-fest for the jaded.
It may well be that humanity's time on the planet is limited, and of course the planet itself will recover, but to blythely dismiss and patronise your empathetic human concern for life on the planet, including human life, is a bit rubbish. The well-being of other humans, the very existence of other species, is not ours to 'write off' with impunity. You are thinking straight, OP.
Many people are making all sorts of adjustments and sacrifices on an individual level in order to lessen their environmental impact on the land. Good! Yet they regularly get patronised or called sanctimonious or naïve. Or 'shown' some way in which their efforts are likely to come to nought or amount to little. Why would someone go to the trouble of doing that? It is like a knee-jerk response to feeling "told" or "lectured".
It is true, individual effort will have less impact than action taken by governments and corporations, but it doesn't have to be either / or; of course we can strive in our personal lives while also campaigning for change on a national and international level.
And the PPs who have mentioned being childless by choice, or even regretting the child they have on account of the bleak outlook for humanity, I hear you too. Yet someone is likely to come along on a thread like this and upbraid you for fear-mongering, guilt-tripping and death-culting; so low. It seems your voices stir a special kind of resentment and very little empathy, which is such a shame as it seems obvious to me you are acting out of the very deepest sense of compassion. Surely it is natural, when considering the challenges we face as a species, to reflect on the likely impact on our progeny, and feel fear for those we love, or, for some, to know instinctively that this outlook is not one they wish for a future child? Or even that forfeiting their own reproductive function in a western economy will reduce demand on resources globally. Life for children, (whether relatively insulated in a western economy or infinitely more exposed in the global south), in a rapidly degrading world with growing resource-scarcity, is going to be hard, and we'll know, and they'll know, that our generation still had choices to make that could have made a difference. Instead, they'll watch the extinction of myriad species, the displacement of millions on account of famine, resource wars, rising sea levels, pollution, vast swathes of continents rendered uninhabitable and know that we made other priorities.
So I'm with you, OP, and anyone else who feels moved to plug away at making changes to our lives, great and small, because it feels like it is the right thing to do. Soon enough will come the need for adaptation but at least we will know we did our best at mitigation.

Even if you ignore the change in temperatures, overfishing, deforestation, pollution etc are still wiping out dozens of species which is pretty damn consequential

Totally 💯 percent agree with you here.

@eaglejulesk

Ok but you didn’t have all these wonderful time-saving machines either. I guess it was all women’s work so it didn’t count?

Oh do get over yourself! We are talking about 50 years ago - not a couple of centuries.

I see you do not recognise how much technology has helped people and gave them more leisure time than ever before. Vacuums, freezers, washing machines, microwave ovens, electric heating, cloth diapering ... and cleaning products that were much less effective so needed more elbow grease, so to speak. So much work ... all of it done by women. Homes perhaps gradually had these by the 70s, maybe ....

Simple tasks that take minutes used to take so much longer in the past.

All this "destroying the planet" talk is utter bollocks. At most we are changing the planet in a way that will make it more difficult for us to survive as a species.

Destroying the planet would mean smashing it to smithereens. Even if we nuked the shit out of ourselves the planet would still be there. Life might be destroyed but it would be a temporary thing, in the timescales of the universe. Even if life never came back the planet would still exist - lots of planets out there might never host any form of life for their entire existence.

The planet will survive, we don't need to worry ourselves about that. If we want to protect our lifestyles and comparative wealth then that's an entirely different issue. The way to do that is to significantly reduce the global population to a billion or less. But, that effectively requires genocide and no doubt people would protest about that too.

The key thing is climate change and man-made damage really don't matter. Nobody who is alive today will still be alive when the shit really hits the fan. If you worry about your descendants several generations from now, make sure you don't have any (more) children yourself. That is the best way to protect your theoretical descendants, and the planet too.

In the mean time, consume, enjoy. We're on this planet for a good time, not a long time.

And the PPs who have mentioned being childless by choice, or even regretting the child they have on account of the bleak outlook for humanity, I hear you too. Yet someone is likely to come along on a thread like this and upbraid you for fear-mongering, guilt-tripping and death-culting; so low. It seems your voices stir a special kind of resentment and very little empathy, which is such a shame as it seems obvious to me you are acting out of the very deepest sense of compassion

The future has never been brighter for humanity, poverty levels have never, ever been lower and more children have survived infancy and lived to adulthood than ever before.

It’s delusional to think it’s remotely a bleak time!

Life for children, (whether relatively insulated in a western economy or infinitely more exposed in the global south), in a rapidly degrading world with growing resource-scarcity, is going to be hard

Resources are not scarce, they are more abundant than ever before.

Instead, they'll watch the extinction of myriad species

This is the only thing I regret, it doesn’t have to be this way either.

the displacement of millions on account of famine, resource wars

Not going to happen. World trade ensures that crop failure in one area will not lead to starvation. That’s what actually protects us. Famine happens in places NOT plugged into the global economy.

rising sea levels

Happens gradually, there’s something called land reclamation you should be aware of 🙄

vast swathes of continents rendered uninhabitable

Loooool where do you predict this is going to happen? Absolutely no one serious has predicted this.

Resources are not scarce, they are more abundant than ever before

Yep, all those fossil fuels and metals are renewing themselves ready to be extracted again, and fish stocks are increasing... oh wait 🙄

@Roonerspismed

It’s what I find utterly bizarre about the reaction to covid. Hysteria because of a virus that overall will probably take a few years off everyone’s lives

Yes what we are doing to the planet - longer term - ruining the lives of our grandchildren and beyond and destroying their existence .

It’s mind blowing. Barely anyone cares.

Even the right to protest peacefully about it is being removed. I hang my head in shame at what we are doing. I feel utterly powerless to stop it

I agree - I think covid is a massive deal and follow the rules don’t get me wrong, but cannot believe all these people calling others “selfish” for wanting a cuppa with family while sitting at home ordering copious amounts of fast fashion online, as though the latter doesn’t harm others somehow.

For some reason it’s acceptable to ask people to sacrifice everything for covid, but not to ask people to make modest lifestyle changes in respect of climate change which is a far bigger problem. I just don’t get it.

Anecdotally, from my own experience, poor mental health plays a part as well.

I used to live a very environmentally conscious lifestyle- recycling, buying local, walking or taking public transport whenever I could, etc. Then I had a mental health crisis (to do with burn out at work), I just wasn’t coping any more. Suddenly, my choices were about what made life survivable for me. Something as small as sorting out the recycling and taking glass to a seperate bin seemed overwhelming - so into the black bag it went.
I couldn’t organise myself any more, I was chasing my tail, I didn’t have the time or headspace to walk and plan journeys around public transport, so into the car I leapt. No time to visit the marketplace for meat and veg and cook my own meals - MacDonalds and Butger King became my friends in need.

I recovered from the crisis, but the “fuck it” attitude of when I was stressed and miserable haunts me.

It makes sense when we are distressed to prioritise our own needs. And we all know there is a mental health crisis not just in this country but globally. People are too preoccupied with their own survival to worry about anyone else.

You know those apocalyptic movies where it’s every man for himself? We’re at the thin end of the wedge.

@PattyPan

Resources are not scarce, they are more abundant than ever before

Yep, all those fossil fuels and metals are renewing themselves ready to be extracted again, and fish stocks are increasing... oh wait 🙄

We’ve heard about peak oil for a long time, but where is it? The technology to survey and recover oil reserves is ever growing and we are always recalculating ‘peak oil’. Same for metals.

Peak oil is much like any other environmental doomsday prediction—oh, judgement day is coming guys! For real this time, just 10 more years!!!

Meanwhile things have got better for the average person, especially for people in the developing world.

But you got me there on fish stocks, I’ll give you that