Can we have a sensible discussion about obesity without shaming?

[BalloonCityBaseline]

I started another thread which got my thinking; why is it impossible to start any discussion about obesity without someone bringing 'will power' and 'personal choice' into it?
I always find on MN there is sympathy for those with addictions, people in poverty, people who stay in shitty relationships but there is no sympathy for those who struggle with their weight. For one, weight gain is seen as a personal struggle (you made yourself fat) rather than thought of as society's struggle (what can we do to address this and help people?)
Let's not forget that every country in the Western world is having an obesity crisis right now, yes even the Scandinavian countries and the skinny French. Also not one country has successfully managed to reduce their levels of obesity? Why?
The number one reason that we have put on weight has to be the shift to processed food and how available and cheap it is. God it's cheap! Easter eggs are now 75p in Tesco, the other day I saw a row of school kids all walking down the road munching a whole Easter egg each. But what's the alternative? That 75p would buy you absolutely nothing in the fancy health food shop across the road, and six of them would have to club together to buy one punnet of blueberries in the same Tesco so what choices do young people have?
Fat shaming just does not work. The number one reason kids are bullied in this country is because of their weight, with girls being likely to be bullied for being overweight more than any other factor. Do these kids lose weight when the bullies scream at them day after day? No, they often self harm and some end up depressed adults who take that shame with them for the rest of their lives.
As someone who has lost weight recently for the first time in their adult life I feel it coincided with a time in my life when I felt happy, busy, fulfilled, motivated and in control, which felt like the first time in my whole life. When I speak to others on the same journey they tell similar tales. The whole 'I couldn't fit into an airplane seat and everybody laughed' Take a Break narrative just doesn't ring true for so many people I know. Happiness and acceptance is much more likely to put someone in a mindset where they can change their eating habits and take control.

I'd be happy to hear other thoughts.

[quote BalloonCityBaseline]@rawlikesushi that definitely wasn't the case for me. I remember spending all of childhood feeling hungry. My mum was slim and would serve us both a quarter of quiche and a handful of salad leaves for tea which just left me ravenous afterwards. I remember watching the quiche being put in a Tupperware for the next day and feeling desperately that I wish I could eat it.[/quote]
Oh that's so sad 😢

@PurpleDaisies

How much chocolate is in a 75p Easter egg? I doubt it’s going to be a massive deal on the background of a generally good diet.

OP was using it as an example to say kids aren't able to choose healthy food as it's too expensive. Whether an Easter egg is particularly bad or not was not the point.

I wonder whether this is a pattern started in childhood, where a child saying they feel hungry is immediately fed

Interesting point. My kids come out of school a bit hungry and I’m in the minority amongst the parents that I’m not standing in the playground with a snack ready. I appreciate that some have dinner later which is fair enough, but my kids finish at 4.15pm and we have dinner 5.30-6ish.

OP was using it as an example to say kids aren't able to choose healthy food as it's too expensive. Whether an Easter egg is particularly bad or not was not the point

It is utterly ridiculous to suggest that a group of teens only bought a 75p Easter egg because it's all they could afford. Especially when you can get a 89p pack of blueberries in tesco, if we really must compare it to berries, which are well known for being expensive.

We ate all sorts of crap when I was in school. There were chicken and chip shops nearby, corner shops for chocolate and fizzy drinks, even a McDonald's when we bunked off and walked there. I can remember about 3 fat kids in my year of several hundred. Teens eat a lot, they junk, they big home cooked dinners. This has always been the case. They are a hungry bunch.

OP was using it as an example to say kids aren't able to choose healthy food as it's too expensive. Whether an Easter egg is particularly bad or not was not the point.

It is relevant though. A 30g chocolate bag is only about 150-200 calories. Not as good as an apple obviously but it’s really not a dreadful choice to make.

We popped into a local town this afternoon to go and collect something, and to our horror couldn't even get into the car park of the place we needed to go, because the entrance was blocked by the massive queue of cars waiting to go through the McDonalds drive through. When we were finally able to gain entrance to the car park, we got half way round, only to join another massive queue, this time for KFC. This was at 3pm, not lunch time, or dinner time, just mid afternoon. Admittedly I've hardly been out of the house for months due to lockdown etc., but I really was shocked at all these people simply queuing to stuff their faces with unhealthy food mid afternoon. Maybe this explains some of our problem with being overweight, as a previous poster said, people can't seem to go anywhere, or do anything these days without the need to take drinks and snacks along, maybe sticking to just breakfast, lunch and dinner with NOTHING in between would help???

@rawlikesushi @LaceyBetty nothing comes up in my bloods and because I'm healthy aside from BMI my GP understandably can't help further. I do appreciate the suggestion though, thank you.

I truly am tracking meticulously.

My very long point though was the conversation needs to not be about obesity but about how everyone fuels and moves their body.

Processed food should be the smallest part of your diet. Movement should be normal not the exception worthy of insta pics and plaudits.

Back to the Easter egg I wasn't talking about a creme egg I'm raking a whole massive one with a pack of smarties. The point is that when I was at school in the 2000's chocolate was expensive. I got 30p to spend after school and Thad would've bought a fudge or a twirly Wurly which are all sensible size portions. Those sort of eggs were much more (£4+) Nowadays if I had the choice between buying a chocolate bar for 50p or three times as much chocolate for 25p more it's a no brainer what teen me would have done.

Can you tell me where thwy sell massive smartie eggs for 75p? 😱 I have in laws with kids visiting over easter and that could be handy!

@PurpleDaisies

OP was using it as an example to say kids aren't able to choose healthy food as it's too expensive. Whether an Easter egg is particularly bad or not was not the point.

It is relevant though. A 30g chocolate bag is only about 150-200 calories. Not as good as an apple obviously but it’s really not a dreadful choice to make.

Yes - I've just had a look and the small eggs (listed for £1 each on Tesco website) are 177 calories each (not including additional contents). A very reasonable choice to make as your 'treat' if you are taking a calorie counting approach.

Chocolate is much more expensive now than it used to be.

Your hypothetical 75p would still buy you a small bar that wouldn’t blow your calories off the day. No one has to buy a massive Easter egg or go hungry.

www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/308103753
75p with a Clubcard
119g
Recommended portion is 1/8th of the egg. Are you telling me these teens split it into 8 portions?

@PurpleDaisies that's just not true. These huge Easter eggs did not used to be a quid. A 'family bar' of Dairy Milk used to be a £1 when my mum earned £6 per hour in the 90's and it's still £1 now. Also back in the day it wasn't in your face on the end of every aisle and by the till like it is now.

@BalloonCityBaseline

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/308103753 75p with a Clubcard 119g Recommended portion is 1/8th of the egg. Are you telling me these teens split it into 8 portions?

Who eats Easter eggs all year round? This discussion has got a bit ridiculous.

119g spilt 8 ways is a 15g portion. That’s half the size of a pretty standard bar of chocolate.

I’m not really buying that teens are fat because they’re stuffing their faces with cheap Easter eggs every day after school because they can’t afford blueberries.

[quote BalloonCityBaseline]@PurpleDaisies that's just not true. These huge Easter eggs did not used to be a quid. A 'family bar' of Dairy Milk used to be a £1 when my mum earned £6 per hour in the 90's and it's still £1 now. Also back in the day it wasn't in your face on the end of every aisle and by the till like it is now.[/quote]
I’m not talking about Easter eggs. I’m talking about regular chocolate. A single person bar of chocolate is double what it used to be in the local shop now. Crisps are the same. They used to be 20/30p a packet. Now they’re double.

I agree that massive bags/bars are now cheaper in comparison so it seems like a good idea to buy a family bag/bar for 20p more. That’s definitely not a good thing.

That Smarties egg is larger than average. The whole thing is 680 calories if I've read it correctly. A growing teenager's daily calorie requirement is likely to be at least the full 2000 so whereas 680 calories for a middle-aged person fattie like me would be about half my daily intake, it's not going to be such a dent for a teen.

I don't think cheap Easter eggs are the culprit - if nothing else, you only get them at Easter. We need to look at what people are eating day in, day out, year round.

Well that's not massive... 100g of chocolate isn't "massive"...
Disappointed

I think so much comes down to money and social economic factors. I live in an inner city council estate. Teenagers finish school and then have to walk through the high street to get to the housing estates. We have 5 kebab shops who openly target the afterschool crowd, KFC who put promotional posters about their £1 popcorn chicken box on all the bus stops, Greggs, and now McDonald's. The local area campaigned against McDonald's as they felt there were so many fast food options already. It's now actually the closest place to buy food nearest the high school.
I work in a very affluent area (2 million would buy you a very minimal three bed) and what I see after-school there is staggering different.
The teens obviously have money but they use that money to make healthy choices. The girls sit in the sun with boxes of sushi and iced tea. There's no Greggs, no fast food apart from one very boutique pizza place, there's small supermarkets (Tesco metro/ Co-op) but their fruit and veg section is massive and the first thing you come to when you enter the shop. They have a huge selection of whole foods. You could take it that this is a reflection of what people are buying but if you don't offer the choice to poor people then how can you say it's really a choice?

I suppose what I'm asking is if McDonald's tried to open in the affluent area would the campaign to stop it be successful? Is 'please don't ruin the aesthetic of beautiful X suburb?' More of a valid argument than 'please stop our fat teens from getting fatter?'

People from my local affluent area just drive to the McDonald’s in the next suburb.

@BalloonCityBaseline

I suppose what I'm asking is if McDonald's tried to open in the affluent area would the campaign to stop it be successful? Is 'please don't ruin the aesthetic of beautiful X suburb?' More of a valid argument than 'please stop our fat teens from getting fatter?'

From what I can see, drive-thru Macdonalds get put up left, right and centre with little regard for aesthetics or anything else.

As a pp said, because these are drive-thru outlets, location isn't really going to make too much difference when you are only talking about driving from one part of a town to another.

@Arbadacarba I think all the drive through McDonald's in my town are in the less affluent areas. I can't think of one in a nice area. They don't want the litter for one!

The ones near me are all off the main commuting roads, so in 'no man's land' I suppose. They're obviously sited for traffic. You can't leave the town without driving past one.

You could put the best whole foods shop in less affluent areas and get rid of most maccies, but ghat doesn't mean kids will go and buy the healthy option.
The kids in richer areas are smacking on suchi (ok) not because it's there, but because they saw their parents eat varied food. Bet you there are rich kids living off maccies and not much more too.
If kids don't get varied food at home when young, they won't get it themselves llwhen teenagers.
Parents set the example, parents set the majority of food kid is eating. Whether rich or poor if you give your kid consistently crisps and chocolates for snacks instead of fruit, veg and occasional crisps and chocolate, that's what they will be used to. That's what they will buy themselves.

@BalloonCityBaseline

I think so much comes down to money and social economic factors. I live in an inner city council estate. Teenagers finish school and then have to walk through the high street to get to the housing estates. We have 5 kebab shops who openly target the afterschool crowd, KFC who put promotional posters about their £1 popcorn chicken box on all the bus stops, Greggs, and now McDonald's. The local area campaigned against McDonald's as they felt there were so many fast food options already. It's now actually the closest place to buy food nearest the high school. I work in a very affluent area (2 million would buy you a very minimal three bed) and what I see after-school there is staggering different. The teens obviously have money but they use that money to make healthy choices. The girls sit in the sun with boxes of sushi and iced tea. There's no Greggs, no fast food apart from one very boutique pizza place, there's small supermarkets (Tesco metro/ Co-op) but their fruit and veg section is massive and the first thing you come to when you enter the shop. They have a huge selection of whole foods. You could take it that this is a reflection of what people are buying but if you don't offer the choice to poor people then how can you say it's really a choice?

To some extent I agree with this. Having said that, when I was a teen back in the 90s, it would have been very unusual to stop off for fast food on the way back from school. Most of my friends would have just had their school lunch at 12, then an evening meal at home around 6pm. I do think 'snack culture' is a big part of the issue. I imagine fast food brands are using social media to target children and teens if there aren't currently any regulations controlling this.