To talk about gender pay gap?

[chopc]

My DD (12) is having a debate after Easter and she has to argue the motion "the world is biased towards men"

Discussing things with her got me interested and I just listened to a podcast about gender pay gap in Uber drivers. as per this women uber drivers earn less than men because they do less unsocial hours etc

The talk implied women want more flexible working/ less pressure etc than men

So should women get paid the same if they CHOOSE a different lifestyle

This is outside having time off for having a baby. It is difficult because some women are not able to breastfeed and are not able to pump so there will be discrimination between women if this was allowed to happen

However if an employee has a year off each time they have a baby, is it right they get paid the same as the male counterpart? This I am not so sure

I know this is in AIBU for traffic but would love to start a discussion on this topic as I think I have a lot to learn

I'd recommend reading 'invisible women' - it's excellent and is great at explaining how and why we live in world designed for men.

But to answer your question.....
A women should be paid the same as her male counterpart if they are doing the same job. It doesn't matter if she has taken maternity leave.
It is illegal to discriminate against women due to pregnancy.

There is a lot of research into the types of jobs men and women choose to do and a big part of the decision making process involves choosing jobs that are appropriate for their sex.

Well women often choose the different lifestyle because they are encouraged to be caring not career oriented from a young age and then the world makes that assumption for them ... the school would never ring the father just the mother for example if a child was ill

If you find that hard to believe , there was a study of toddlers interacting with trained nursery staff

At the end of the session the nursery staff reported about the children. Interesting to find that there was already a marked difference with the girls being much more kind and gentle , the boys more into cars and trucks snd much more boisterous

...and then the great reveal . The "girls" were boys in pink clothes and vice verse

The trained nursery staff were projecting thier exoectations into the children

And the children get positive feedback for behaving as expected , so girls learn they need to be kind, take a back seat

Invisible women is a good book

Look up the years of the Married Women's Property Act. Then look up the year in which all women in the UK (not just some) got the vote. Then look up the year of the Equal Pay Act. Then look up when women could get a mortgage in their own right. Then look up when women were able to take combat roles in the Armed Forces.

Then reflect on the fact these are UK laws.

And consider there are countries where women are not allowed to drive even!

@TheJerkStore - so women able to take multiple amounts of maternity leave. The man doing the same job continues to work - you think they should both be paid the same?

[quote chopc]@TheJerkStore - so women able to take multiple amounts of maternity leave. The man doing the same job continues to work - you think they should both be paid the same? [/quote]
Yes. It's the law.
Do you think they shouldn't be paid the same?

OP with respect, that's not what your DD's been asked to debate! We're arguably lucky in the UK to be even debating the gender pay gap at all. It's hardly an issue in places where women can't decide to work outside the home, drive, study, how many children they will have...

I'll say it every fucking time, men should have a year off as well. AS WELL. Not shared, as well as.

@Phineyj actually gender pay gap is a part of it and it's the bit that perplexes me so I would like to learn more about it

@An0n0n0n that's what I thought. However say if you are working in a team and all your people in a certain category goes off on leave at the same time, how would the business function?

YABU to call it a gender pay gap. It’s a sex pay gap, in which biology disadvantages women every day. You can’t identify out of it by calling yourself Ken and wearing trouser suits to work.

@TheJerkStore so I could basically be an absent employee for several years and I should be able to not lose out in any pay increments and perks even though my male counterpart has not had the privilege of the same leave or time away from work? How is this fair on the men?

And having had three kids I have to say that once pass the first 2-3 months , my maternity leave was a "holiday" from work

I suppose it could work if they are able to take similar time off the job in later years without "penalty"?

Where I work there is a 20% gender pay gap. They are trying to say its because not many women apply to a technology company but equivalent companies have 5 and 7 %. So even when women do apply they get paid less. Its shit

You are confusing the Gender Pay Gap with equal pay. The Gender Pay Gap is the average earned by women and men, usually due to more women in lower paid jobs bringing the average down

Good point OP. I think women should stop having children and then we'd get a good few years of well deserved equal pay before humanity dies out.

@TheJerkStore so I could basically be an absent employee for several years and I should be able to not lose out in any pay increments and perks even though my male counterpart has not had the privilege of the same leave or time away from work? How is this fair on the men?

I’m sure it’s more than fair on the fathers of those children who get to have kids, without inconvenience to their bodies or careers.

Good point OP. I think women should stop having children and then we'd get a good few years of well deserved equal pay before humanity dies out.

Exactly. People always moan about the unfairness of maternity pay on men but what is the alternative? That women become poorer than they already are? That they become even more dependent on men (but at the same time blamed for their dependence)? Or that they stop having babies and the human race stops?

@chopc

@TheJerkStore - so women able to take multiple amounts of maternity leave. The man doing the same job continues to work - you think they should both be paid the same?

Yes they should be paid the same. you are comparing apples and pears here.

Rather looking at an unrelated man and woman look at a man and woman in a relationship who choose to have children together. Man can (should he wish) can become a parent with little to no impact on his career. The woman in that relationship is unlikely to be able to do that due to taking a break (yes some woman may want to return to work after two weeks but many women want/need time to recover from birth and be with their babies). So we need to ensure that women don’t bear the professional and financial cost of being the person having the babies.

[quote chopc]@TheJerkStore - so women able to take multiple amounts of maternity leave. The man doing the same job continues to work - you think they should both be paid the same? [/quote]
If they are doing the exact same job then yes, they should be paid the same.

But if the pay is based on level of experience and the woman is effectively a year behind then no, they shouldn’t be paid the same. (I’m in this position and perfectly happy with it.)

So we need to ensure that women don’t bear the professional and financial cost of being the person having the babies.

Bravo 👏

The talk implied women want more flexible working/ less pressure etc than men

Is that truly a choice though? In our society, mothers are usually viewed as the 'default parent' with primary responsibility for childcare, regardless of whether or not they work.

As a result they need more flexible work in order to meet this expectation. This continues long after the baby stages. Fathers don't have the same issue.

There's a good episode of Explained (Netflix show) on the gender pay gap. Should be accessible enough for your DD and it's also available on YouTube .

@ContentsMayBeHot I will take a gander. More feasible for me to watch something than read

This is hilarious. Lots of women do not take a year out of work post birth. I didn't and neither do a lot of professional women.
I deserve the same pay as a male colleague who is entitled to parental leave also on smae terms as my mat leave.
Anything else is just sexist bullcrap

@yellowbluefish nope there is no biological need for a woman to be the default parent but it's a decision between the couple

@Kimye4eva this is where my thoughts are at the moment.

However this is how the gap happens - because if a woman has multiple kids and multiple lengths of maternity leave her experience and the targets she can realistically meet are less than that of the male counterpart who started the role at the same time