To ask if you would consider a specialist school over mainstream for this child?

[Leviooosaaah]

DS1 is 11 and the eldest of 3 so we are new to secondary; he is autistic and I’m becoming increasingly worried that he is just not going to cope in a mainstream school. He masks at school but his teachers are aware that he is behind developmentally in areas of social, emotion and communication. I’ve applied for an EHCP but I’m mid appeal for assessment.

I have picked a very good school but I feel sick at the thought of sending him there as I just can’t see how he will be able to cope .

He is selectively mute and receiving SALT for this.

He finds it impossible to make new friends (he has friends but these friends are starting to outgrow him so I don’t think they will last much longer).

He has daily explosive meltdowns including throwing things and banging things as he is so wound up from school.

He is unable organise himself, find his own clothes or socks, or regulate his own homework. It causes arguments if we try to encourage him to do this.

He is unable to get himself out of the bath or shower and get himself dried; he relies on me to do this and it has to be done a certain way. Any encouragement to get him to do it himself results in crying and shrieking.

He will not leave the house and hates to go out.

He will not enter a shop but also does not like to be left to wait in the car . If I walk out of sight in a park or outside of our home , he gets upset and feels like I’ve left him.

Has no desire to play out with his class mates and is impulsive , easily persuaded to do the bidding of others and does not act upon road safety.

He could never (at this stage) get on a bus or buy something independently in a shop.

He refuses to engage in homework on any level and is unable to pack his own school bag.

He can only make a basic sandwich of cheese spread or such like; he can not make toast and needs a lot of supervision. He is unable to “find” things he needs.

He can not describe or verbalise his feelings and has a way of thinking that I can not comprehend at all (I try!). If something goes wrong , his version of events in the way he sees it sounds completely irrational (but is rational to him).

He can not not deal with unexpected changes to his routine and even a minor upset can change his mood for the whole day.

He has to be encouraged, bribed and argued with to conduct simple basic hygiene such as washing and brushing his hair. This causes hours of meltdowns.

Academically he is clever but is attaining average grades and I feel this is hindered by his anxiety and emotional immaturity.

He will categorically not talk about school; even the mention of the word sends him in to shut down and he will not engage in any conversation to help him.

I feel he is very vulnerable; this is not “typical” of a child his age is it ?

Would you be concerned and think he may better be suited to specialist provision?

He has a brilliant mind but I feel his anxiety is overpowering the lovely little boy he is. He spends his whole life worrying, feeling angry and exploding. I love him dearly and I just want him to be happy , but he never is .

Tutor here with several years experience of supporting children and young people with SEND. It does sound like your DS would find a mainstream secondary extremely difficult. However, while specialist provision can be great for a child’s self-esteem, anxiety levels and social skills, they can be hit and miss at supporting them academically, even if they offer GCSEs. Standards can be low as the classes are often simply too small to differentiate for a wide range of ability. I am currently tutoring a young person (who moved from MS to a special school) for GCSE maths, as the work his class do is very basic and he is bored. We are also preparing him for GCSE computer science, which interests him but his school do not offer. His parent is currently getting him assessed for an EHCP to keep his options open.

If you can get a EHCP with a one-to-one, and you can find an MS school to take him (not guaranteed as one of my families have found out) then this may be a better option for an academic child than a special school. Even better if you could afford it, and could get DS to accept learning a little more independence and to take responsibility for homework, is an independent school with a nurturing ethos and good pastoral care. I have supported many bright children with ASD, ADHD, dyspraxia, dyslexia and dyscalculia to pass entrance exams for private schools, mostly with single or double scholarships, so that they can reach their full academic potential.

It’s a minefield and I wish you luck in finding the best solution for him.

@suitcaseofdreams we have struggled with this too. The LA ban schools from engaging with parents who want to potentially consult with them. Essentially to keep parents ignorant so the LA can place in unsuitable schools.

We have the added issue mine is a girl, that is a whole new nightmare in finding specialist provision.

www.google.com/amp/s/schoolsweek.co.uk/councils-receive-conditional-send-special-needs-school-funding-bailouts/amp/ this is also proving horrendous. Several other LAs including Warwickshire are being horrendous too.

The idea of choice is grim

DD is in year 9 and there is a boy with autism in her class. He has 1-to-1 support but the LSA is useless and really doesn’t support him sufficiently. The result being that this poor boy is terribly disruptive - screeching, wailing, crying etc and it’s now a nightmare for the rest of the class. Maybe if he was supported properly it’d be ok but it must be miserable for him and it’s affecting his classmates too

Your experience isn't worth much in light of the evidence, though, is it @AvaCallanach? It'd be lovely if all the great things you refer to had come true, but they didn't. What are autistic kids supposed to do in the meantime?

What I find 'shocking' is your inference that children can be used as a means to an end. No individual autistic child should suffer now in order to perhaps achieve something that might benefit a possible other in the future.

And plenty of autistic children DO thrive in mainstream.

You can go to a private special school without an EHCP, if you can afford it.

"And plenty of autistic children DO thrive in mainstream"

I hear plenty of mothers and teachers saying this, but not autistic people. Almost every autistic person I know were abused in mainstream school - including me - and this is backed up by the evidence. A minority of autistic kids might thrive in mainstream, but to believe 'plenty' of them do is deluded.

*was, not were

That is a ridiculous claim and you are being insane @Thenose

Plenty do thrive in mainstream. Just because you didn't doesn't mean you speak for the majority.

@Mumofsend Evidence?

@Thenose

Your experience isn't worth much in light of the evidence, though, is it *@AvaCallanach*? It'd be lovely if all the great things you refer to had come true, but they didn't. What are autistic kids supposed to do in the meantime?

What I find 'shocking' is your inference that children can be used as a means to an end. No individual autistic child should suffer now in order to perhaps achieve something that might benefit a possible other in the future.

Actually I would argue that 20 plus years as a practitioner in the field, making these changes, at a systemic and policy level and for hundreds of individuals counts for quite a lot. And is certainly more up to date than a 2015 article quoting papers from as far back as 2000. Autism education and understanding and the neurodiversity movement has changed dramatically in that time frame, as has the scope of diagnosis. A diagnosed cohort in 2000 (when that "perfect victims" comment was made) would look very different from a diagnosed cohort in 2021.

The article you quote from does not draw the convulsion that autistic children should be segregated in specialist schools.

*conclusion

I can honestly say that my DD with ASD hasn't been bullied in mainstream. But I think that's because she is so insular that she wouldn't be fun to bully. You're either one of her people, or your not, and if you're not, she's just not interested what you think.

She made me laugh a few days ago because she said that the teacher changed the seating plan and another pupil asked her if she was a new kid That's how much she cares about who 99% of the people around her are.

It isn't within the scope of the article to draw such a conclusion, @AvaCallanach. It's fairly obvious that I was conveying an opinion with that statement, just as you are. The trouble is, your posts are heavy on opinion and scant on evidence, but you appear to think that they have some sort of innate authority simply because you wrote them. What actual evidence do you have that autistic children are doing significantly better today in mainstream secondary education?

I think it's also important when looking at how those of us who are adults now experienced mainstream education to remember the state of things at the time. Asperger's wasn't even a diagnosis then. It's very tricky to make decisions for children now based on our experience decades ago.

There is also quite a lot of research from autistic people (and people with other SENs) showing the benefit to all from integrated schooling. The issue is that schools do not implement it well (due in large part to insufficient funding) but while that can drive our decisions on a personal basis, we cannot let it discredit the basic principle. Segregated schooling can do real harm to autistic people as well--not only through lower academics but through teaching them that they need to be kept separate.

I'm currently in the USA which has a very different approach to mainstreaming and SENs, but I do think it's important to consider peer influence. Some children respond significantly to peer modelling and this can be for the good or the bad depending on the composition of the class.

",Our theoretical frameworks and
what evidence is currently available suggest that a multi-level, comprehensive approach
to intervention that offers parallel foci on children and young people with ASC (e.g.
Beaumont and Sofronoff 2008), their peers (e.g. Staniland and Byrne 2013), teachingand support staff (e.g. Symes forthcoming), and the broader school ethos and climate
(Morewood, Humphrey, and Symes 2011) is warranted. "

Oh look, their conclusion on what is needed is very close indeed to the practice I recommended in my post above and which I am enacting in my fieldwork every day. That's very reassuring.

My opinion, @thenose, is that like every other child or young person, a cyp who is autistic deserves to be considered as an individual. I am certainly not a person who believes that every autistic who doesn't have learning difficulties should be in mainstream. Neither do i believe that automatic segregation is justified, wise or necessary. Of course this is just my opinion. I do not believe the evidence would say otherwise. Are there dreadful schools that no autistic kid should be subjected to? Absolutely. Is every school like that? No. Do some autistic kids do well in mainstream? Of course.

If it is an option for you look at home schooling. Probably in your case with an internet based remote lesson provider such as Interhigh. By reducing the social demands of attending physical school you may find a far happier, healthier more capable child.

Integration is all very well, but the reality rarely lives up to the ideal. SN schools if you have the right one can be great, but getting the right match can be really hard and you may have to cast a wide net regarding either distance or suitability.

If he’s 11/ year 6 have you not already applied for secondary? I’ve got teens with extra needs and had to look at secondary options in year 5.

So, no actual evidence that autistic children are doing significantly better today in mainstream.

I think the saying ‘If you’ve met one person with autism, you’ve met one person with autism’ is really important to remember here.

I have seen some children with ASC in some schools absolutely thrive, find a group of friends and flourish in secondary in a way they could never do in primary. I have seen others flounder in mainstream secondary and come alive in specialist settings. Professionally, I have fought hard to get some children into mainstream schools from specialist settings and have done the same for others to move from mainstream to specialist provisions.

OP, it’s tough. My DD is in Y7 and although does not (yet) have a diagnosis, sounds similar in some ways to your DS. She is doing really well. She enjoys it more than she did primary school and she is getting better support from the SEN dept than she has ever had before. Had she gone to a different school, she may have sunk- but this only tells me about my child in this particular school, nothing more.

I would say, take stock of provision in your area, including ASC resources provision within mainstream. There are some amazing specialist settings out there, and there are some awful ones. There are ones which will suit your son and ones which will not; and only you and him will know which is which.

Be aware that it is very hard to access specialist settings, and virtually impossible to do so without an EHC plan.

I would advise contacting your local Independent Advice And Support Service (used to be called parent partnership). They can support you through the EHC assessment process and beyond.

Good luck

I could be wrong because it may be different in different areas but I don't think a specialist provision will take him until he has an EHCP. He definitely sounds like he would benefit from a special needs school, it was the best thing i did for my son. The classes are much smaller, the facilities are better, there are therapies available and support staff as well as teaching staff.

@Thenose

So, no actual evidence that autistic children are doing significantly better today in mainstream.

I don't think you could possibly prove OR disprove this, given how different the diagnostic groups are, never mind changes in education. There's too many variables involved. Do you really want to compare autistic children from when we were at school, who were undiagnosed and unsupported, to children from today in any setting?

Find your local send support network and find out about the ‘local offer’ via the LA website. One issue with SEND in in MS is cutbacks and the need for a v detailed ehcp, plus the rest of his peers effectively ostracising him as they want themselves to fit in and become more aware of differences. Special schools do and can teach academically able kids, just as MS can support Students with send but not all do. Best support is via the very knowledgeable parents on the sen board.

I am autistic and would myself have preferred a special school environment to the mainstream one I found myself in. I spent more time (a LOT) worrying about hiding my disabilities and navigating complicated ways around them than worrying about my work and I think I'd have had more opportunities if this hadn't been the case.