To ask if you would consider a specialist school over mainstream for this child?

[Leviooosaaah]

DS1 is 11 and the eldest of 3 so we are new to secondary; he is autistic and I’m becoming increasingly worried that he is just not going to cope in a mainstream school. He masks at school but his teachers are aware that he is behind developmentally in areas of social, emotion and communication. I’ve applied for an EHCP but I’m mid appeal for assessment.

I have picked a very good school but I feel sick at the thought of sending him there as I just can’t see how he will be able to cope .

He is selectively mute and receiving SALT for this.

He finds it impossible to make new friends (he has friends but these friends are starting to outgrow him so I don’t think they will last much longer).

He has daily explosive meltdowns including throwing things and banging things as he is so wound up from school.

He is unable organise himself, find his own clothes or socks, or regulate his own homework. It causes arguments if we try to encourage him to do this.

He is unable to get himself out of the bath or shower and get himself dried; he relies on me to do this and it has to be done a certain way. Any encouragement to get him to do it himself results in crying and shrieking.

He will not leave the house and hates to go out.

He will not enter a shop but also does not like to be left to wait in the car . If I walk out of sight in a park or outside of our home , he gets upset and feels like I’ve left him.

Has no desire to play out with his class mates and is impulsive , easily persuaded to do the bidding of others and does not act upon road safety.

He could never (at this stage) get on a bus or buy something independently in a shop.

He refuses to engage in homework on any level and is unable to pack his own school bag.

He can only make a basic sandwich of cheese spread or such like; he can not make toast and needs a lot of supervision. He is unable to “find” things he needs.

He can not describe or verbalise his feelings and has a way of thinking that I can not comprehend at all (I try!). If something goes wrong , his version of events in the way he sees it sounds completely irrational (but is rational to him).

He can not not deal with unexpected changes to his routine and even a minor upset can change his mood for the whole day.

He has to be encouraged, bribed and argued with to conduct simple basic hygiene such as washing and brushing his hair. This causes hours of meltdowns.

Academically he is clever but is attaining average grades and I feel this is hindered by his anxiety and emotional immaturity.

He will categorically not talk about school; even the mention of the word sends him in to shut down and he will not engage in any conversation to help him.

I feel he is very vulnerable; this is not “typical” of a child his age is it ?

Would you be concerned and think he may better be suited to specialist provision?

He has a brilliant mind but I feel his anxiety is overpowering the lovely little boy he is. He spends his whole life worrying, feeling angry and exploding. I love him dearly and I just want him to be happy , but he never is .

OP you can applying on his echp for independent private school place if there isnt a good fit of special school ie one that's academic enough for him.

@Hankunamatata I didn’t know that, thank you

If I am successful for the EHCP appeal, would it then be worth going to look at some specialist provision schools?

@IJustLikeBiscuitsOK we are in the South, thank you though

I believe he would definitely benefit from a specialist school, possibly weekly boarding. But they are so expensive - LAs are understandably reluctant to fund them. shame John Friel has retired - he was a brilliant barrister for this stuff (personal friend).

Please do look into specialist provision. I’m a secondary teacher and I know my school would try their best with a child like yours, but ultimately there just wouldn’t be the funds or resources to provide what your child needs. We’ve had many parents over the years insist that they want their child in mainstream, usually citing ‘social reasons’ but ultimately they are doing their child a disservice because they often end up quite isolated because their peers from primary school start to make new friends and move away from them. In many instances it would be far better for their child to be in a school that can provide what they need.

@Volcanoexplorer in your experience, how quickly do friendships change in year 7?
DS wants to be with his very small friendship group but I am concerned this is not a thing he should rely on.

Honestly? I would push for a place in a special school as he doesn’t sound like he will cope in a mainstream one. Tbh it shouldn’t be a case of him “coping” anyway. He deserves an education that suits him where he can be secure and flourish rather than every day being something he has to get through somehow. My son has been in a special school setting since year 1 as he couldn’t, and never will, cope with mainstream.

He sounds very similar to my eldest. I would start looking at, or at least researching, provision ASAP so that you know what is out there.

I have absolutely no experience but having seen and heard the stuff that goes on from my DD (13) in secondary school, from what you've said I think he would have a difficult time.

She is a quiet, well behaved pupil and has been targeted by bullies and had unpleasant stuff said to her.

I feel for you both and you sound like an amazing mum. So yes, I'd consider a different more appropriate school.

@Leviooosaaah do you have a solicitor dealing with your appeal? The one I have has been invaluable in giving advice, recommending provision and professionals to use for assessment. Its expensive but I wouldn’t have looked at the school we are considering if she hadn’t mentioned it.

My DD was in mainstream primary for 3 years and we planned on her being there until secondary, but by the end of year 2 it was obvious she was not getting the right support from the school.

She has an EHCP with full time 1:1 and we went to look at a Special school and made up our mind to move her, this was February 2020 and she started there in September 2020 and the difference is amazing.

She is doing things her previous school told us she would never do and we do not regret our decision at all, we wish we had done it sooner.

They do formal learning, but tailored to the child.

I think your child will benefit from a special school as the anxiety is a big thing we have noticed subside.

Ring up a couple of schools and speak to them, that's what we did and looked at websites. They also have experience and contacts which can be a great help.

I will admit we were nervous, but after visiting our fears were unfounded.

I do not have to take her she gets on a minibus with other children and a chaperone and really enjoys it.

They learn life skills also - cooking, cleaning and then they also learn personal care which can be a battle !

As the Mum of as DS now 16 who is severely autistic and has SLD I would be shouting from the rooftops to get him into an SEN school and I certainly wouldn't put him through the trauma of attempting mainstream

We were extremely lucky and didn't have to fight for anything and Ds's school is just 2 miles away.

For years I had it into my head that he was going to go to a mainstream school despite very gently being told to check out the SEN.

I resisted until the day I took him to a NT kids group and when I returned DS was sat on one side of the room and all the other kids bar none were on the other staring at him like he was some sort of freak show.

I got us in the car, got home had, a bloody good cry then made an appointment to visit the SEN the very next day.

The minute we walked through the doors it felt like coming home, I can't describe it!

The problem wasn't DS it was my failure to see the realities of his life and sadly I come from a generation where SEN schools were considered fair game for ridicule. The moment I faced up to that shame was like a lightbulb moment and one that changed our lives infinitely for the better.

DS's school has excellent provision for further education (he will be in 6th form until he is 19) but children who are more capable are being eased into employment and apprenticeships. It's wonderful and so encouraging to see.

I know not everywhere has this so good luck OP, I will be thinking of you. Keep us posted if you feel you want to as I would be very interested to hear how it is working out for you all.

Most of those challenges, whilst very valid, aren't going to impact or be obvious in school (eg making toast, washing etc).

I am going to be completely honest.
I think specialist can also be problematic for highly anxious, inhibited autistic people like your son and my child as well, as many attendees, through no fault of their own, can be unpredictable, loud, and have behavioural challenges. In addition many specialist settings don't offer gcses.

I would be looking for a resourced mainstream setting if your LA has them.

So, perhaps this is helpful: I went to special school from mainstream after a number of failed secondary school placements.

I would say it was great in many ways and bad in one specific way, which is actually totally manageable. I definitely was much more able to engage in school, schoolwork, and some socialisation aspects. I benefited emotionally and psychologically from being one of the more socially able (in comparison) kids. I still didn't get many GCSEs though, and it took me a long time to enter adult life. As a (such a cliche) computer programmer I am now very employable but it took me until I was around 30 to understand how to do this (not the programming, the adulting!).

But I think I may have ended very badly indeed if I had continued in mainstream education. It was simply too many people and too chaotic for me to manage. Going into special school was a huge pressure release for me. School became a quiet, comprehensible place, that didn't make me physically ill, so I had more cope left over to work on the life stuff and the growing up stuff. Also because I had someone who came to get me in a taxi (I shared a taxi with another girl and a keyworker), it removed some of the most challenging aspects of school for me - which were transitions.

The real downside of special school was it taught me, symbolically and implicitly, maybe through the way it happened, that there was something deeply, unfixably wrong with me, as a person, that meant I couldn't be around normal people. That I must be kept away from them. I've subsequently talked about this with other people who went to special school and they all felt the same. It's a really complicated thing to deal with. (But I think you can deal with it.)

I think it would have been better if I'd started off at the special school instead of being moved around loads of places, failing and failing and failing, until eventually crashing out. But even so, even saying that, it was still a positive experience compared to mainstream.

My ds 16 has been in a specialist school since year 5. That last year of MS was awful. He struggled to cope with the school day and the demands put on him resulting in very aggressive meltdowns. He had a sen statement( now ehcp) and 1:1 support who were brilliant but sadly it was still too much.
He started the specialist school and the violent meltdowns disappeared. He became calmer, happier and loves school.
Moving him was the best thing we ever did.
He has achieved things we didn't think would be possible.
The school ds is in strongly teaches independent living skills. There are gcse's for those who are able. My ds is year 11 and is doing entry levels rather than gcse's.
He has a place for post 16 at the school in September and is looking at possible IT courses for after post 16 but will probably stay in post 16 for 2 years before moving on.
The provision is brilliant and aims to get them ready for life after school, has links with the local college and teams up for transitions etc.

I would say fight for the ehcp. Check out and speak to your local specialist schools find out as much as you can from them(ds travels 45 mins to his on door to door LA transport).

I would

Primary Senco here.
Can I ask why he hasn’t yet got an EHCP? You say you’re appealing, is that because the panel have not agreed to assess? When did he get his ASD diagnosis?
As far as Secondary special school is concerned, dependent on which LA you are in, provision is very mixed. I’ve worked in 3 different LAs, one had great ASD provision through units attached to mainstream schools at both primary and secondary phases. One had a special school for primary only, the other had bugger all!!
Places in special schools are in very high demand nationally - there are just not enough places. I do know that often Y7 pupils end up transitioning to special school as they have struggled massively in mainstream. The difficulty is where a child has only received their EHCP towards the end of primary, has achieved the expected standard, and Primary school don't see the same behaviours that parents see at home. They’ve ‘coped’ in mainstream so far - the thought seems to be that they’ll ‘cope’ in mainstream secondary. Just recently, we sent 1 boy who sounds quite similar to your ds although he’d had an EHCP since 3 years old, to mainstream as he didn't get a place in special much to his parents dismay. He’s now in Y8 and doing really well! even his parents are surprised. That being said, it could all have been a complete disaster for him.
I believe parents are sold a lie in that we believe we have a choice over mainstream or special school with our EHCP children. The reality is that unless their needs are extreme, they end up in mainstream with ‘support’. Primary is very different to secondary, we are able to be much more flexible and nurturing, younger children are much less of a challenge to SEN children, the whole dynamic is different. It’s only once these children whose SEN isn’t severe start to fail in the mainstream system that the LA becomes more proactive. That’s wrong, but thats the reality.

@AvaCallanach

Most of those challenges, whilst very valid, aren't going to impact or be obvious in school (eg making toast, washing etc).

I am going to be completely honest.
I think specialist can also be problematic for highly anxious, inhibited autistic people like your son and my child as well, as many attendees, through no fault of their own, can be unpredictable, loud, and have behavioural challenges. In addition many specialist settings don't offer gcses.

I would be looking for a resourced mainstream setting if your LA has them.

This is a big part of why we have decided mainstream with support is probably be best for him. Ds doesn’t like other children as it is but often really clashes with others with additional needs because of the clash of needs.

It’s all very complex and a nightmare decision though. I wouldn’t look at it as mainstream v specialist but as a case of finding the school best for your child. They all offer such different provision

It's about finding the right school not necessarily specialist or mainstream.

Specialist was great for ds1. We managed to find a good one that was prepared to teach him a good range of GCSE's as well as providing the therapeutic support he needed. Because of this support when he needed it he is now in a mainstream college for sixth form and hopefully is off to university next year.

Specialist was not great for ds2 as unfortunately although I am sure they were good with some children they did not meet ds2's needs (his anxiety leads to a great deal of demand avoidance). We took him out and he is home tutored instead and he is much happier. Long term I don't know as he is still very anxious about going out of the house.

The moral of this story is you have to be very careful to make sure the school is a good match for your ds (we tried to do this for ds2 but unfortunately the school was taken over by new management very soon after he got the place and lots of changes were made which did not suit him at all).

As others have said problems in a specialist school can be clashes with other pupils (was a problem at times for both my ds's), increased travelling distance (ds1 had a 1 hour taxi journey - not great) and reduced opportunities for GCSE's (ds1's school was the best of the ones we looked round but even they offered fewer than mainstream schools).

Please do look at independent schools as well. If it is the right school for your ds the LA can fund the place. My ds is at a very small independent secondary and it's been amazing for him, he is fully funded by the LA plus the funding for his needs. There are less than 50 in his school so it's wonderfully quiet and supportive.

Which environment will be best for his self esteem and happiness? Which school will help him build peer relationships and interactions? This school will give him the best start to teen life and probably also the best grades. Lots of children with SEN sit GCSE’s in special schools in classrooms with tiny student staff ratios.

Private funded by EHCP could be suitable but it's a very tight deadline. I don't think you'd get it sorted for September.

Do you have many options for MS secondary locally?

Your DS sounds like he would thrive in the right place and with the right support. However in the wrong school with no support he is very vulnerable and could be taken advantage of. I say this as a secondary teacher in an average MS school. There are benefits to mainstream, bigger 'pool' to find friends from, more likely to lead to academic outcomes and bigger places sometimes have more support.

@Soontobe60 I agree that the idea of there being much choice is an illusion. If they can make mainstream ok they will, even if its not the best for them.

We are trying to move my year 1 DD out of mainstream and its proving a nightmare.

You sound like a fab mum OP and I think you should trust your instincts. I work in a secondary school with an amazing SENCo and we have autistic children who cope well. However from your own observations I think he would struggle to access the levels of support required. Fight to get the best you can and believe in yourself. Good luck xx

If or when the LA agrees or is ordered to assess, push them to get the full range of reports including a speech and language therapist and an occupational therapist with qualifications in sensory integration. To get a special school you are going to need professional advice that your child needs provision of the type that is not available at mainstream schools, e.g. therapists on site, small classes, specialist teachers etc. Have a look at the SOS SEN booklets and webinars.

@Leviooosaaah it’s not too bad at first, especially if they’re in the same classes, but happens much more quickly if they’re of different abilities and in different classes. They sort of get through year 7 okish, but from year 8 onwards it’s much more apparent. The kids start to meet up after school or weekends at places like skate park, town etc and this is when it becomes more noticeable because they don’t have the same level of independence because of the risk involved and they start to get left out and become more marginalised.