To ask if you would consider a specialist school over mainstream for this child?

[Leviooosaaah]

DS1 is 11 and the eldest of 3 so we are new to secondary; he is autistic and I’m becoming increasingly worried that he is just not going to cope in a mainstream school. He masks at school but his teachers are aware that he is behind developmentally in areas of social, emotion and communication. I’ve applied for an EHCP but I’m mid appeal for assessment.

I have picked a very good school but I feel sick at the thought of sending him there as I just can’t see how he will be able to cope .

He is selectively mute and receiving SALT for this.

He finds it impossible to make new friends (he has friends but these friends are starting to outgrow him so I don’t think they will last much longer).

He has daily explosive meltdowns including throwing things and banging things as he is so wound up from school.

He is unable organise himself, find his own clothes or socks, or regulate his own homework. It causes arguments if we try to encourage him to do this.

He is unable to get himself out of the bath or shower and get himself dried; he relies on me to do this and it has to be done a certain way. Any encouragement to get him to do it himself results in crying and shrieking.

He will not leave the house and hates to go out.

He will not enter a shop but also does not like to be left to wait in the car . If I walk out of sight in a park or outside of our home , he gets upset and feels like I’ve left him.

Has no desire to play out with his class mates and is impulsive , easily persuaded to do the bidding of others and does not act upon road safety.

He could never (at this stage) get on a bus or buy something independently in a shop.

He refuses to engage in homework on any level and is unable to pack his own school bag.

He can only make a basic sandwich of cheese spread or such like; he can not make toast and needs a lot of supervision. He is unable to “find” things he needs.

He can not describe or verbalise his feelings and has a way of thinking that I can not comprehend at all (I try!). If something goes wrong , his version of events in the way he sees it sounds completely irrational (but is rational to him).

He can not not deal with unexpected changes to his routine and even a minor upset can change his mood for the whole day.

He has to be encouraged, bribed and argued with to conduct simple basic hygiene such as washing and brushing his hair. This causes hours of meltdowns.

Academically he is clever but is attaining average grades and I feel this is hindered by his anxiety and emotional immaturity.

He will categorically not talk about school; even the mention of the word sends him in to shut down and he will not engage in any conversation to help him.

I feel he is very vulnerable; this is not “typical” of a child his age is it ?

Would you be concerned and think he may better be suited to specialist provision?

He has a brilliant mind but I feel his anxiety is overpowering the lovely little boy he is. He spends his whole life worrying, feeling angry and exploding. I love him dearly and I just want him to be happy , but he never is .

One of the programs i work on specifically targets tweens/early teens with a number of non-verbal autistic kids attending each week..i feel theres no way your lad would get the high-need support he requires to thrive at a regular school-especially regarding vulnerability&susceptibilty.The basic things like timetabling/organisation&multiple over-stimulatory settings would be mind blowing.I would imagine all kinds of behaviour escalations&wouldnt expect him to feel secure&safe being thrust into what is challenging territory for those who are fully capable of expressing themselves in"socially acceptable" ways&competent with the nuances of forming friendships and "reading"situations. Do you
have any way of accessing 1:1support a few days a week with a SW trained in autism/communications&behaviours?I dont know how it works over in Blighty anymore-i left years ago.Good luck with it all

Great advice here ; I’m reading through each post

@CornishPastyDownUnder could you elaborate on this part please? One of the issues I have raised in our EHCP appeal is that I feel he is vulnerable but I don’t know how this would be apparent in an educational setting :

“especially regarding vulnerability&susceptibilty.” .

@Bubblesbath no solicitor at the moment as I am in the very early stages of appeal for refusal to assess.

Thank you to the pp’s who have given personal experiences with SEN schools and also being a SEN pupil that’s very helpful.

I engaged DS in a conversation tonight about secondary school and managed to get some limited insight in to his thoughts .

He wants to go to the school we have picked for him because that’s where we have told him he’s going . He is also convinced that he will not make new friends and the few he has will be his friends for life and they will also play Power Rangers on the school yard.

I explained I was considering a different school with smaller classes, a regular teacher and classroom etc and he agreed that this is likely to suit him more. He knows I just want him to be happy and I’ve been honest that the school I have picked for him is a good school and he may be happy there but that I am not prepared to put him through daily stress for it and I’ll be looking at other options to suit him best.

The criteria for a needs assessment is very basic so if you point that out to them it may kick them into gear! It is literally “may have special educational needs and may need extra support in school”

@Leviooosaaah it’s quite unlikely that you will get a place for DS to start specialist provision in September so he may well have to go to the mainstream school until and if you win a place. It’s a difficult position to be in, my DS has visited specialist provision and I’m preparing him to move but also have to try to not put his current school down as he may not get a place at the school we want when we appeal.

It is literally “may have special educational needs and may need extra support in school”

Not really. It's that the child has or may have SEN, and may need support via an EHCP. That second bit is important, because there are lots of children in school on SEN support who will never need an EHCP - my son for one. Basically you need to show that it's likely that your child's needs can't be met using normal mainstream resources and that they are not making progress.

@Bubblesbath he will be going to the secondary we have a place for him in September and I have been very positive about it to him . I’ve told him we would only look at other provision if it didn’t work out but he might go and love it (I highly doubt it!) .

But I am sceptical and I’m certainly in a place where I feel enough is enough; junior school has escalated his anxiety and his behaviour at home is taking a toll on us all. I can not put him through another year of this and I feel I need to protect his mental health and self esteem.

It is only now that I am applying for an EHCP as I was always told he needed to be two years behind academically.

Sorry haven't read the full thread to many apologies if this has already been suggested.

Do you have the middle school system anywhere near you....as an interim solution might be to move him to a middle school.for the next year while.you fight the ehcp. So he has 1 more year of being in a smaller school without the older children.

@Mumdiva99 I wish we did have that option but it’s straight to secondary where we are.

I don't have much advice to share except to say that your son sounds exactly like mine and it has been an ongoing battle with the school to recognise his SEN (he has had a very unhelpful teacher for two years in a row who scores all the teacher assessments as 'zero problems').

We spoke to the council specialist teacher (in the autism outreach team) and she advised the local MS secondary here has a very good rep for SEN support. Maybe you could ask around to see what the general opinions from professionals are.

To answer the original question yes I would consider a specialist school, and I hope you are successful in getting an EHCP.

@Leviooosaaah where in the South are you? I’m in W Sussex and can recommend a great group on Facebook which is all families with SEND, loads of knowledge about local schools, EHCPs, appeals etc.

if you have not already, please look up Gareth Morewood and the low arousal approach (offered by Studio III). Their training and resources are usually free for parents.

I have many experiences, personal and whilst working.

Not all Specialist or mainstream schools are good. I would advise that you look into private Specialist schools than LA specials schools. The private specialist schools have more of a scope for high functioning children, who can also partake in GCSE's and are the in-between kids. As an example, I live in Surrey. Have a look at the Moor House school in Frensham-- their websites. Those are the particular schools you want your DS to go to.

Life skills are very important. You will find that once children get to year 8, they will start meeting up by themselves, going to the shops to buy things for themselves (younger children are also doing it), travelling etc. Mainstream secondary (depends) will not teach your children life skills, it's all about supporting the children to get through their GCSE's. I haven't yet met a great mainstream secondary with good SEN support so I am being bias. I

Same with special schools. You may get one which is more like a babysitting service at best. Not only that, you have to be careful about the peer group in the schools.

One of my non verbal children went to a specialist setting at a very young age. We saw 20 schools and there was only 3 that we liked! My child is now older and is a different child (but still the same!) he speaks very elaborately, social skills have improved immensely, he attends outside mainstream activity classes (which he would have never been able to cope with). I believe we made the best decision at the time.

I've looked at a few mainstream schools and those with units. There was one we really like but they are very full and over subscribed. But on the whole, there is just not enough funding and even though my DC will be able to manage being in a "mainstream environment" would he be able to learn as fast paced as the other kids, bullying (and bullying is on a whole other level at secondary) and I want him to have friends like him... it would be great if he could have friends wherever he goes but my DC gets on well with children similar to him.... also I just had this feeling that in mainstream, my DC would just sink whereas I want him to swim.

One thing I’m not sure anyone has asked - if he doesn’t have an EHCP - does he have a 1-1 at the moment? Mine (also in yr6 now) has come on so much since he got his (in yr 4) a lot of his behaviour and struggles to pick up self care skills etc were because of his stress levels. Getting 1-1 for mainstream may be easier at this point than getting into special school for yr 7?

@Thenose

Autistic kids are ‘perfect victims’ and almost all of them are bullied in mainstream secondary (between 59-94% in a given year). The likelihood increases if they are AS or HFA, receive external SEND provision or have other behavioural difficulties. Bullying also affects them more and contributes to their 28 x higher rates of suicidal ideation and attempts.

The experiment of lumping autistic kids into mainstream schools to achieve the political ideal of educational ‘inclusivity’, has failed miserably.

Give him a frigging break and just say no to fucking mainstream.

Evidence?

Im an ex SENDCO and current SEN teacherin mainstream secondary. I've known children with autism do brilliantly in secondary and I've known kids really not cope at all. You need the secondary to be really inclusive. Nothing you mention is insurmountable in itself, but it may be that secondary mainstream can't adapt enough.

I would start looking at specialist provision, until you have the EHCP you can't access it, but you could push for specialist provision to be named school when it's issued.

Secondary mainstream becomes difficult when children struggle with changing lessons, are distressed by having so many adults, find other children's behaviour stressful and the environment generally is too stressful.

@AvaCallanach

Humphrey, N & Hebron, J (2015) 'Bullying of children and adolescents
with autism spectrum conditions: a ‘state of the field’ review', International Journal of Inclusive Education, 19:8, pp.845-862.

I'm in north Hampshire, if that is where you are feel free to PM me.

Facing a similar dilemma here - although we are year 5 and have agreement to issue EHCP so slightly ahead of where you are but the draft isn’t great and as things stand it assumes he will continue in mainstream. This may be ok for the rest of primary but I can’t see it working for secondary. I’m struggling to find suitable schools for an academically very capable but severely anxious autistic child with demand avoidant traits.
The most frustrating thing I’ve found is that no one gives you any support or guidance on schools - they all say they can’t recommend and that I just need to research it myself... not easy when you can’t even visit any schools at the moment :-(
I’m very much erring on the side of either mainstream with unit or independent specialist. The LA specialist schools locally would not be suitable - either for children with significant learning disability or for those with challenging behaviour (which my son can have but only ever at home and he certainly wouldn’t cope being surrounded by other kids with challenging behaviour in school)
But I know I’ll have a massive battle to get LA to pay for independent specialist...particularly as they currently think mainstream will be fine

One thing I’d say (with the benefit of hindsight) is once you get agreement to assess, pay a lot of attention to the quality of the reports, especially the Ed psych. If the reports don’t clearly state a need for specialist then you have no chance...

Your description of your DS is interesting. In some ways, I see my DD2 (13) in him, who had a disastrous primary experience (3 different schools and a period out of school) because her needs weren't met. She didn't get her ASD dx until she was 11, but it was clear to me early on.

DD2 is doing really well in mainstream. She has a very small band of friends and they are really strong. All different from each other, but it works. They just seem to accept DD2 for how she is. She won't get involved in their dramas (she's known as being 'Switzerland') and she will only talk to her close friends. She doesn't talk in class much at all.

Provision is adequate and as they get to know DD2, school staff are really thoughtful about measures that will help her. She has a toilet pass (which she won't use!), a 'leave class 5 minutes early' pass, which she uses sparingly. She has been offered discreet tutor mentoring and she's taking part in a 1:1 well-being programme. Generally, if there's a problem, I can just email the relevant teacher and say "DD2 won't tell you this, but she's struggling with..." and they always sort it out.

In other ways, your DS reminds me of DD1 (15) who has gone to special school since she was 4. Special school (we're Hampshire) looks at the whole child, and they do things like 'maths for life' and 'world of work' curriculums, which are highly applied, as well as traditional subjects.

I echo posters who say that you definitely won't be sorted by September and you've already missed the Special School allocations for year 7. They are done ahead of the admissions round. But if his MS school isn't a good fit, they will talk to the LA. He can't go to special school without an EHCP.

Specialist school. He's unhappy now. Things will get worse if his needs aren't met in mainstream school.

It's not my experience that pretty much all autistic kids should be in specialist school @Thenose.

I find that assertion quite shocking.

I do think that trying to make autistic children "less autistic" so they "fit in" is a flawed premise, and I do think that autistic kids need to be helped to have pride in their neurodiversity, and to find peers who are congruent in communication style (generally, but not exclusively, other neurodiverse kids). I do think that schools should make reasonable adjustments to protect their more vulnerable youngsters (as many do) and I do think that autistic children often need a much more adaptable school system where they might drop one or two GCSEs for example, in order to work on and consolidate their independence skills.

I do not think a blanket policy of removing autistic children from mainstream is in any way a good idea.