SERIOUSLY??? People may quit if forced to work from home, Rishi Sunak warns ?

[R2221]

No Mr Sunak. Working from home saves me 2 FUCKING HOURS of daily commute + rush hour stress + travel costs.

I work from home now. I am more productive, less stressed and happier.

@Alsohuman

I don’t think closing the pits and privatising steelworks was “rolling with the changes”. It was quite deliberate government policy. Nobody held a gun to Thatcher’s head.

You rather make my point for me.

One reason why I hope Risky RIshi receives a chorus of raspberries for his faux concern for anyone other than himself. It looks weird.

I seen they've had to call in Big Balls Boris now to bolster the back to the office brigade.

@GrannyWeatherwaxsHatpin The economy would be better off rolling with the changes rather than trying to force the genie back in the bottle.

Fully agree. We need to move forward not backwards. Trying to turn back time has never worked.

It's why so many town and city centres are so badly run down - the local councils can't think beyond what they know, i.e. retail domination. Some councils have even prevented development by refusing planning permission to convert run down/empty shops into residential.

As for trains and other public transport, they need to think about their business model. For years, they've concentrated on commuters and the "rush hour(s) to the detriment of leisure/special events, etc. Perhaps they need to start thinking more about putting on "specials" for festivals and sports events, or "day trips" to the seaside or tourist attractions, (like they used to do!). Or a far better weekend/evening service to serve the non commuter market. Maybe even a longer day, i.e. starting earlier, finishing later for those working shifts or to serve airports, etc.

There are so many possibilities for dealing with the "new normal" that need to be embraced. Not just lazily hoping that everything returns to how it used to be!

@Alsohuman

I don’t think closing the pits and privatising steelworks was “rolling with the changes”. It was quite deliberate government policy. Nobody held a gun to Thatcher’s head.

But it was response to the market they were in, globalisation, etc. The industry was declining - for how long and costing how much do you prop up an bygone industry?

But it was response to the market they were in, globalisation, etc. The industry was declining - for how long and costing how much do you prop up an bygone industry?

It wasn’t. The pit closures were pure spite. Entire communities were thrown under the bus and generations were condemned to the dole queue. How much did that cost?

How were steelworks a bygone industry if they could be privatised?

But it was response to the market they were in, globalisation, etc. The industry was declining - for how long and costing how much do you prop up an bygone industry?

Depends on whose snout are in which troughs, I guess.

Coalmines and steelworks were never going to be huge Tory donors. In fact they were the opposite and kept Labour in power.

Whereas commercial property, retail premises rental and the like, along with a housebuilding industry that desperately wants to avoid building houses are key Tory donors. And believe you me they're calling their debts in.

@DGRossetti "If your place of work is the office you could claim the expenses of travelling from there to the hub. For now at least if your employer isn't opening the office."

The journey from home to the hub would become the new "normal" commute so there'd be no tax relief if it was a regular/recurrent journey.

"Where the employee is required to be somewhere infrequently, irregularly or for short periods of time, the costs of travel to that temporary workplace are allowable."

So, if that journey becomes freguent or regular, it no longer qualifies as a temporary workplace (allowable).

@DGRossetti

But it was response to the market they were in, globalisation, etc. The industry was declining - for how long and costing how much do you prop up an bygone industry?

Depends on whose snout are in which troughs, I guess.

Coalmines and steelworks were never going to be huge Tory donors. In fact they were the opposite and kept Labour in power.

Whereas commercial property, retail premises rental and the like, along with a housebuilding industry that desperately wants to avoid building houses are key Tory donors. And believe you me they're calling their debts in.

It's not all about politics. Lots of Labour supports are also property investors and business owners. Look at Alan Sugar (Labour Peer) who I suspect will be choking on his cornflakes worrying about his London property portfolio!

At least half my work could be done from home but I wouldn’t like it, too close to the fridge! 🤣

Sugar voted Tory at the last election. Just saying.

[quote Kazzyhoward]@DGRossetti "If your place of work is the office you could claim the expenses of travelling from there to the hub. For now at least if your employer isn't opening the office."

The journey from home to the hub would become the new "normal" commute so there'd be no tax relief if it was a regular/recurrent journey.

"Where the employee is required to be somewhere infrequently, irregularly or for short periods of time, the costs of travel to that temporary workplace are allowable."

So, if that journey becomes freguent or regular, it no longer qualifies as a temporary workplace (allowable).[/quote]
Rules around expenses are trivial to change on paper anyway.

HMRC aren't stupid (well, they are, but that's for another thread) and it was a well known tax dodge to say an employee worked at "X" when they really worked at "Y" as a way to funnel extra cash sans tax to them. Hence that ruling. However when I really was WFH, I travelled all over the place - there was no single location that was a disguised office. So all my travel was expenses.

If I was going to make money out of the WFH fad, I'd look to taxing VPNs. Not so much because it's fair or equitable, but more because I'd love to hear the excuses from HMRC as to why it can't be done. (I wonder if I offer to do it for £36 billion I'm in with a chance ?)

@kazzyhoward, my contracted place of work is Mile End hospital in an old building with no WiFi so I had to go to another trust site to do my work 3 days a week. When I tried to claim for travel costs, I was informed - ‘it’s on your way home, so no you cannot claim travel expenses’!

Yes and more people will be seriously unhappy and possibly quit if forced to return to the office.

It’s still not safe even with vaccinations it’s not safe as 30% is still a bloody big chance of dying if you catch it as the vaccine doesn’t prevent you getting it. It’s meant to lessen the effects when you get it but that’s only 70% anyway. And no one knows if it’s still 70% when it takes more than 21 days for the 2nd dose. So yeah I don’t wanna return to an office on a busy public transport route that heads into a town Center on the next stop and my office being next door to a hospital and several schools on the route. There is nothing I can’t do at home I would do in the office all meetings are strictly my invitation only in person or via teams. And saying hello to the CEO does not improve our chances as he’s not the recruiting.

It’s still not safe even with vaccinations it’s not safe as 30% is still a bloody big chance of dying if you catch it as the vaccine doesn’t prevent you getting it. It’s meant to lessen the effects when you get it but that’s only 70% anyway. And no one knows if it’s still 70% when it takes more than 21 days for the 2nd dose

Literally none of the statistics you’ve given there are accurate. That doesn’t mean I think everybody should be going back to the office straight away but really, come on.

it’s not safe as 30% is still a bloody big chance of dying if you catch it

I am totally against Covid minimization, but where do you get the idea that the mortality rate is 30%? Even for the unvaccinated, it's nothing like that.

@Iseestupidpeople - over 99% of those under 65 who have caught covid (without the vaccine) have survived. (Its something like 0.66% who have died after catching it)

The death rate is pretty low. Most of those who died are the very elderly. Its a nasty virus, but its not killing anywhere near 30% of those who catch it.

30% mortality???

Yeah. No

@Iseestupidpeople

Yes and more people will be seriously unhappy and possibly quit if forced to return to the office.

It’s still not safe even with vaccinations it’s not safe as 30% is still a bloody big chance of dying if you catch it as the vaccine doesn’t prevent you getting it. It’s meant to lessen the effects when you get it but that’s only 70% anyway. And no one knows if it’s still 70% when it takes more than 21 days for the 2nd dose. So yeah I don’t wanna return to an office on a busy public transport route that heads into a town Center on the next stop and my office being next door to a hospital and several schools on the route. There is nothing I can’t do at home I would do in the office all meetings are strictly my invitation only in person or via teams. And saying hello to the CEO does not improve our chances as he’s not the recruiting.

Those of us who can't WFH manage it fine.

I get not wanting to go back to the office if you can do your job fine from home. But it does grate when people say they don't want to go back because of the Covid risk, but are fine with those of us who have no choice but to go out to work taking that risk.

Rishi needs people in London because investments are tied up in London real estate. If properties lie empty, he’s in the doo doo when it comes to balancing the books.

not read the thread, but you realise working from home only benefits currently because most people's work is factoring in travelling expenses?

If everyone worked from home, salaries would have downwards pressure as someone would potentially be willing to do it cheaper because they know they don't need to factor in wages, so many new shoes, clothes, lunches, social life etc. and so - on etc

Could get a bit grim...

The problem is WILL those working from home transfer the money to the local economy? More likely, they will have lunch in their kitchen, made from cheese and bread brought at Sainsbury’s. And all those ‘service’ people: cobblers, barbers etc are unlikely to be needed (as much) if people are sitting in their pyjamas all day.

I agree @BustopherPonsonbyJones. My nearest market town is 4 miles away. I'm not going to drive there to get a coffee when DH makes a really decent cup with coffee bought from Tesco. I usually make a sandwich or salad for lunch with whatever I have in the fridge (I usually shop at Tesco).

My local petrol station gets very little business from me as I rarely use my car. I haven't been on a train in over a year.

@whetherpigshavewings

Why do you think that? confused because it's the days piss-takers tend to be "off sick" in general? It's not new....

And people who want to go back to the office are piss takers? Not getting your logic here.

It will be interesting to see how many people are still keen to work from home when their employers remove their London weighting. After all, if you don’t work in London you don’t qualify.

Maybe they're right?

Personally I MAY quit if I'm forced back into the office despite a year of exceeding my targets whilst WFH 🤷‍♀️

A hybrid model is best - a 2 hour commute is bearable if done half the week. Win-win!
Honestly WFH is demotivating and exhausts me so much that I have no mood to leave the house after it, ironic as it sounds.

Be interesting to see how much of an effect some people remaining WFH has on the commute for those that have to ? It could well balance a few minds ....