Page 4 | To think flats without a living room should be banned?

WombatChocolate · 25/03/2021 18:27

I’m surprised that people haven’t heard of this arrangement. Most people who were students living in houses without a living room or knew friends who did. Landlords could squeeze more rent by having an extra student living there than they could from the property having fewer tenants with a living room.

And loads of young working adults in the cities across the country lived under similar shared house arrangements.

I guess some people were never students or perhaps they lived in cheaper housing areas where you could move out of your parents home directly to a flat or house which was a decent size and with separate living room.

In some areas, I still read threads on MN of people in 20s looking to get a first property...they want and can get a 3 or 4 bed with en-suite and the works. Having to live in a bed sit or shared house just isn’t on their radar in the way it is for many students and those living in London or south east.

alwayslucky · 25/03/2021 18:35

Central London is the last place to expect two rooms for the price of one. Your DD might, in any part of London, find people renting a mattress under the stairs. As a bonus, when she is abused by a fellow sharer, she becomes non-existent, as far as Domestic Abuse is concerned. She is assumed perfectly able to find another place to live, instantly, or else to stay inside the same home as her abuser, while prosecuting him.

ShipOfTheseus · 25/03/2021 18:38

Sometimes it might be four people - two couples - in a one-bed flat. One couple has the bedroom, the other has the other bedroom/ex-living room. I know quite a few who live like this.

Coyoacan · 25/03/2021 18:40

Just because old experienced hands are used to this misrepresentation, is no reason to sneer at someone who isn't in the in crowd, nor for misrepresentation to be permitted to continue.

I live in Mexico City and there is scam that has been going on for ever of offering people a job that they end up having to pay to do, but year after year new people fall for it.

Respectmyauthoritah · 25/03/2021 18:46

I went to view a 1 bedroom flat on Fulham Road donkeys years ago. It turned out to be a single room, with a sunken bath right in the middle of it. Small gas cooker and mini fridge set up on a foldable table against one wall formed the kitchen. A toilet was inside a cupboard with saloon style doors.

The estate agent saw no problem with advertising it for £1300 a month.

mindutopia · 25/03/2021 18:46

I lived in many a tiny flat when I was in my 20s (in New York). It meant I could afford to live in a great part of the city. Why would you ban that? It was perfectly liveable for a single person in their 20s with no kids. I had a desk in my one 'living room' and I ate at my desk. I had a tiny kitchen and WC but I had a clawfoot bathtub in my bedroom/living room. It was great, really quirky. To be fair, in any of my shared flats, I didn't really have anywhere better to eat. It's not like we could afford a dining table. I still ate at my desk. At least I didn't have to share the bathroom or kitchen though.

Fluffyandsilly · 25/03/2021 18:50

@IJustWantSomeBees
They won't be advertised as studio flats, they'll be advertised as one or two bedroom flats. It's lies!
@rampacious I know exactly what you mean, having viewed a flat like this a few years ago when DH and I were looking to buy. It was a one bedroom flat, but the vendor had made the living room into another bedroom, and shoved a sofa into the kitchen to make that a freaking tiny "living and kitchen" area.

You would not believe how hard it was for us to find a two bedroom flat where the two bedrooms are proper double sized bedrooms, and the kitchen is a proper room, big enough to actually cook in and have a little table and chairs in, not just a few units shoehorned into part of the living room.

jessstan2 · 25/03/2021 18:57

@Respectmyauthoritah

I went to view a 1 bedroom flat on Fulham Road donkeys years ago. It turned out to be a single room, with a sunken bath right in the middle of it. Small gas cooker and mini fridge set up on a foldable table against one wall formed the kitchen. A toilet was inside a cupboard with saloon style doors.

The estate agent saw no problem with advertising it for £1300 a month.

Blimey, that is a bit much.

Does anyone remember flats that had a bath in the kitchen with a board over it so it could double as a work surface? That was quite common when I was young. Obviously no wash basin, you used a bowl - which you could put on the bath-work surface. Toilet was off the hall and shared with another.

jessstan2 · 25/03/2021 18:58

@mindutopia

I lived in many a tiny flat when I was in my 20s (in New York). It meant I could afford to live in a great part of the city. Why would you ban that? It was perfectly liveable for a single person in their 20s with no kids. I had a desk in my one 'living room' and I ate at my desk. I had a tiny kitchen and WC but I had a clawfoot bathtub in my bedroom/living room. It was great, really quirky. To be fair, in any of my shared flats, I didn't really have anywhere better to eat. It's not like we could afford a dining table. I still ate at my desk. At least I didn't have to share the bathroom or kitchen though.

That sounds good for a single person, quirky as you say. I'd have liked that.

Chartreuse45 · 25/03/2021 19:18

In Germany they describe flats in number of rooms and square metres. However bathrooms, kitchens and corridors are not included. A two room flat would mean it has one bedroom and a living room. It makes it clear what to expect! Though sometimes they upsell by saying it is "well cut" - meaning no dead space. That can be a matter of opinion in my experience!

apurplecar · 25/03/2021 19:19

@rampacious

I am helping DD look at flats in central London. The amount of times a flat looks promising, but then it turns out that the sitting room is one of the bedrooms. Some of these flats have tiny kitchens, with no table et cetera. So the only place that people have to eat would be at their desk, on the loo, or sat on their beds.

Does anyone else think that flats should be banned from being advertised as a two bed flat, when really it is a one bed with the living room 'converted' into a bedroom. Quite a few of these are not even significantly cheaper either.

Seriously? Banned?

Really?

AbstractHeart · 25/03/2021 19:20

My mate once moved into a 1 bed apartment but then used the living room as his bedroom and subletted the bedroom for the same price he was paying to the landlord. Free accommodation!

EveryDayIsADuvetDay · 25/03/2021 19:33

Look at the floor plans - if there aren't any, tell the agent you're only prepared to look at ones with floor plans - or ask specifically about the size of the living room.
If you don't like the size of what you're seeing - look further out in the suburbs, but remember the trade off with travel costs - if you end up spending £100 a week extra in travel costs, you need to factor that into the equation.

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 25/03/2021 19:35

I think the better solution would be if they had to put up a better description/ floor plan. So that no one wastes their time.

oblada · 25/03/2021 19:42

Floorplans should be standard, along with proper measurements etc.

Recently saw the same house as ours advertised - 4 double bedrooms.... Hmmm not really no. 2 bedrooms are double yes. The 3rd bedroom could fit a double bed if nothing else goes. No chance in the 4th bedroom.
Estate agents say all sorts! Best to have some hard facts to rely on before a visit

notanothertakeaway · 25/03/2021 19:42

I think it's fine to do that, so long as it's transparent. Changing the use of a room can render a property affordable when it wouldn't have been otherwise

MadinMarch · 25/03/2021 19:54

I think that the essential difference here is often in the terms of the letting agreement. In flats/houses which have no communal lounge but share the use of a kitchen and a bathroom or two, this is much more akin to a bedsit, and the rental agreement will be in respect of one room only and you won't be responsible for any damage or unpaid rent from another tenant.
In a house or flatshare with a lounge, the tenancy agreement is more likely to be on a joint and several basis, where all tenants are equally responsible for any damage or unpaid rent, regardless of whether they did the damage or caused the rent to be unpaid.
There's always been these different sort of setups- I remember rent just the room without a lounge, way back in the early 70's.
No way should they be banned. The rent is cheaper without a lounge and many people would be unable to afford to live in their chosen area without this option.

Bluntness100 · 25/03/2021 20:31

Of course they shouldn’t be banned, they are cheaper than renting a room with access to a communal lounge. And plenty of people are ok with that and don’t use communal areas past the kitchen.

SmokedDuck · 25/03/2021 22:01

People might want to read the OP's post rather than just the title:

should be banned from being advertised

ShipOfTheseus · 25/03/2021 22:15

You may think it’s normal to have a living room, but many people don’t have a dedicated living room. Living rooms count as bedrooms officially when deciding if accommodation is overcrowded or not.

Bluntness100 · 25/03/2021 22:18

@SmokedDuck

People might want to read the OP's post rather than just the title:

should be banned from being advertised

But they are two bed, the fact the living room is used as a bedroom is irrelevant, it means two tenants there. It would be wrong to advertise it as a one bed, when it’s two with no living room.

Harveypuss · 26/03/2021 00:00

I don't think the practice should be banned but adverts should be absolutely clear that there is no lounge.

My DD rents this type of student accommodation in North London. It's a 3 bed top floor flat in a converted house. 3 bedrooms (one would have been the lounge), shared kitchen and bathroom. It was clearly advertised that way so we knew the score when we viewed.

It works for the 3 students sharing and it keeps the costs down, though expensive enough, but that's London for you. The costs of a 3 bed with lounge were out of their price range. They literally just sleep there, so they are happy with the set up. I do think it's a shame they don't have a communal lounge, but it doesn't seem to bother them. I think perhaps as parents we can't understand not having somewhere to all sit together, but DD says they just congregate in the kitchen or watch Netflix on laptops in each other's bedrooms!

jessstan2 · 26/03/2021 00:52

@SmokedDuck

People might want to read the OP's post rather than just the title:

should be banned from being advertised

I got that. The flat was advertised as a two-bedder but one of the bedrooms was used as a sitting room. Not a big deal in my opinion and usually obvious from the floor plan and photographs if advertised somewhere like Rightmove.

Why does a girl on her own need two bedrooms anyway? I hadn't thought of that before, or perhaps I am misunderstanding. It sounds as though a lot of misunderstanding was created by that advertisement. However there is generally more than one flat to look at, just move on to the next one.

The important thing is for the op's daughter to feel comfortable in her accommodation. It's such a big step to strike out on your own. When I was growing up, all I wanted was to leave home and have a place to myself. When I did I was scared of every noise and shadow, couldn't sleep! I 'got there' eventually but it took time to adjust.

apurplecar · 26/03/2021 07:27

@SmokedDuck

People might want to read the OP's post rather than just the title:

should be banned from being advertised

Even so...

Brefugee · 26/03/2021 07:39

You just need more standardized advertising. In Germany things are advertised as, say, "first floor apartment, 3 rooms, kitchen, hall, bathroom, guest toilet" and then you can guess it's 2 bedrooms & living room.or "house, 3 stories, 4 rooms,kitchen, hallway, 2 bathrooms, guest toilet, garage, garden, cellar"

Much easier