To think flats without a living room should be banned?

[rampacious]

I am helping DD look at flats in central London. The amount of times a flat looks promising, but then it turns out that the sitting room is one of the bedrooms. Some of these flats have tiny kitchens, with no table et cetera. So the only place that people have to eat would be at their desk, on the loo, or sat on their beds.

Does anyone else think that flats should be banned from being advertised as a two bed flat, when really it is a one bed with the living room 'converted' into a bedroom. Quite a few of these are not even significantly cheaper either.

I've never heard of this! Where do you sit, where do you eat?

@starbrightstarlight8888 where have you been?!
I’m in my 50s and bedsits have been around my whole life!

Of course they shouldn’t be banned - but listings should be clear not to waste people’s time.

For those thinking bedsits
relabelled Studio Flats
are a new thing

Most new builds for sale also have kitchen and living room in one with one or two small bedrooms and a bathroom. Even houses are open plan. Many older converted flats are the same.

starbright it used to be back in 'the olden days' (Victorian/Edwardian/Pre war etc) it was literally just a room you rented. There was no bathroom. A communal lav in the yard if you were lucky. Cooking facilities were the fireplace. If you had one.

I don't think the OP is referring to studio flats so I'm not sure why people keep bringing it up.

Houseshares or whole properties are not bedsits / studio flats.

I live in a houseshare that has a large kitchen diner AND a living room. It's almost unheard of in London. Very often the lounge is converted into another bedroom and there's nowhere apart from your room or a kitchen to relax.

Yeah it’s totally shit. I lived in a flat in Islington in which the “living room” had been turned into a bedroom. Tiny kitchen, now with four bedrooms. We basically had to take turns using the kitchen and then our bedrooms were used for everything: eating, working, relaxing, sleeping. I paid £850 a month for it as well!

Fab, Soft Cell, love a bit of guy liner, me.

Central London though. I think if it says living room and 2 bedrooms yeah false advertising but I used to live in a studio flat in central London and honestly it was the size of a box room.

surely they either advertise as two bedrooms no reception, or one bedroom one reception? They can't say reception and two bedrooms if one of the bedrooms has been turned into the reception as thats double counting and should absolutely be illegal as its basically lying

Pretty standard for London tbh

Lived in some awful places over the years

We should advertise by ROOM (and square footage)

which you can then use as a sitting room, a bedroom, or what the hell you fancy.

and "box room" sold as bedroom when they are too small to fit at least a double bed, 2 bedside table and a wardrobe should not legally be called "bedroom".

So your "2 rooms flat" would be accurate, up to you what you do with the rooms.

It's pretty obvious with the price, but we get into these ridiculous situations when a house is advertised as a "4 bedroom house" - when it has 4 bedrooms, but also 3 sitting room, 1 play room, 2 dining rooms, 6 bathrooms

and the other "4 bed house" is really a 2 bed, with a box room and a dining room/ study down stairs

When I was looking to buy a new build in London 25 years ago, a lot of them combined rooms. If I remember right, you could get a 2-room+bathroom flat in Heston for c. £45K

That would probably fit into our living room in Brum ...

I don’t think they should be banned
But listings should be clear so as to not waste anyone’s time.

I used to live in a ‘four-bed’ flat in London which was really a two bed with a living & storage cupboard turned into bedroom. Our only communal space was the kitchen.

I paid £300 a month less than any of my friends in the area, and the girl in the converted cupboard paid £400 less. When you’re young and (usually) out all the time, we’d rather have the money in our pockets.

Surely the flat description will give you a clue if there is no floor plan. Ie. Bedroom/lounge/kitchen, or two-bed/kitchen

In France, property descriptions are standardized. So a T1 is a bedsit and a T2 is a one-bedroom property and so on. The rooms also have to be a certain size to be considered a room. So a bedroom has to be 9m2, not including anything under 1m80 in head height (so under the eaves). The kitchen and bathroom don't count to the number.

I don't know if I'm explaining it very well, but it's pretty useful! It's law, so an estate agent would be in contravention of the equivalent of trading standards regulations if they didn't follow the rules.

Welcome to the joys of London living. It's been the case for decades.
Some of the shite I've seen has included one bedroom flats magically morphing into 3 bedrooms.
A bathroom with the only toilet btw and a bunk bed for one lucky tenant.

Pay attention to the pictures. Read the listings carefully. Things like room in a 2 bed flat avoid as you have found out that's all it really is.

No I don't think they should be banned.

When I was single I rented a flat in which the sitting room and kitchen were combined, the kitchen area was along one wall. In addition I had a bedroom and bathroom. It was very cosy indeed.

Single people live in all sorts of places. Studio flats are just one room with a kitchen area. A 'one bedroomed flat' could be a studio with an alcove for the bed.

If a bedroom is used as a living room, it is a living room.

The important things for a young woman living alone is to be safe, warm and private. It's quite something to have your own place, better than flat sharing which often involves rows about bills and cleaning, and sharing a bathroom.

Good luck to your daughter.

Sounds like a bed sit to me.

That's London!

For gods sake your in London...why would you want a proper living room for? Covid excepted of course

That does sound a bit cheeky and misleading!

Took a while to get my head around but in Germany all flats/houses are listed as "X rooms" which counts all rooms except for bathrooms, kitchens and hallways. So it's not always clear if one or two of them are reception rooms (for example I wouldn't want a bedroom leading off the kitchen, that's got to be a dining room), but at least you can mentally decide what you want to use them for by yourself.

Are you talking about flat shares, OP? It's getting increasingly hard to find those with a communal area. And yes, I'm afraid that really is just greed on the part of the landlord. It can't be banned though. Makes no sense. You just need really careful filtering on flatshare sites.

I stayed in a converted living room (original an open living room/kitchen) in London and it was terrible as the wall put up was thin and so I could hear washing machine etc on in the kitchen. Especially annoying as flatmate would put it on at midnight. Still got it for a bargain at £700 a month! Don't you just love London

I don't think you'll get far with wanting them banned, but I get what you mean, OP. When I was house-sharing in london (admittedly a few years ago now) I always discounted places where the living room had been converted into an extra bedroom. Like you say, you'd be stuck in your bedroom or the kitchen. It's a very studenty lifestyle that I wouldn't have minded at 19 but didn't suit me at 29. Lockdown must have been unbearable.

I once saw a place that looked promising - 2 bedroom flat where current tenant was looking for a flatmate. Except it was really a 1-bed flat and he had converted the living room into a second bedroom. The catch? It was an open-plan kitchen/living room so access to the kitchen would be at agreed times only.