To really feel for the team at AZ

[andweallsingalong]

AFAIK AZ are the only company in the world to have produced a covid vaccine at cost. Their product is far cheaper than equivalent products, which benefits all of us.

They launched very quickly and it seems put in some extremely long hours, even over Christmas to get the job done. No doubt putting in similar long hours to fix teething problems beyond their control.

They've produced millions of doses of vaccine with no profit and continue to do so making a massive difference globally to the pandemic. They've set up manufacturing plants in other countries in partnership with local agencies, when it would no doubt have been easier to stay local with people who know their processes and are close by in case of teething problems.

Absolute legends in my book, each and every person involved.

Yet, instead of saying "Thanks, you're so much cheaper this will make a huge difference to our economy. We'll pay what's asked and trust you'll reinvest if it comes in cheaper than expected." Some countries haggled over price - whilst paying several times more for comparable products.

Every day there's someone having a go in the press.

I just think if I had worked my ass of to produce a viable vaccine, at cost, made it available globally. No matter what the teething problems with some of the factories if I had all the flack they're getting I'd be wondering if it was worth it!

I don’t know enough about it to be fair but I know that no good deed goes unpunished that’s for sure.

Yanbu. Though it must be said, those of us who work in big Pharma are quite used to being demonised by the public. It’s situation normal, from the “fact” that we have the cure for cancer but prefer not to publish, to the “fact” that we intentionally make people ill to sell more drugs.

Yes Ferguson Walsh said as much this morning on R4

They are likely not to bother doing at cost for next pandemic

Latest is public rebuke from a US body before FDA has decided

@justanotherneighinparadise

I don’t know enough about it to be fair but I know that no good deed goes unpunished that’s for sure.

Yep I thought that this morning

Yep, I've had similar thoughts. I would NOT want to be their logistics teams at the moment in particular. But they're all amazing and getting almost zero thanks and a ton of grief.

@MarshaBradyo

Yes Ferguson Walsh said as much this morning on R4

They are likely not to bother doing at cost for next pandemic

Latest is public rebuke from a US body before FDA has decided

Yes FW also said on the news the other day something about how it was the company doing the vaccine not for profit who are getting vilified

Well I am massively grateful to AZ for me personally getting the vaccine and also for the part they will play in getting the world out of this mess.

Whoops meant Fergus autocorrect there

Totally agree with this. The political handling of AZ non-issue in many countries has been shameful.

@Takemetothebar

Yanbu. Though it must be said, those of us who work in big Pharma are quite used to being demonised by the public. It’s situation normal, from the “fact” that we have the cure for cancer but prefer not to publish, to the “fact” that we intentionally make people ill to sell more drugs.

I work for a company who provides a service to Pharma co’s so I work with people like you very closely In general our clients are incredibly hard working and dedicated people who in some cases have poured everything into their business but are still seen by some sections of the media and public as evil entities just out for profit. Yes, there is money to be made from drugs but not without huge outlay and commercial risk and then after a certain time it goes off patent anyway so it can be copied in India or similar. I love my clients, the majority are genuinely fantastic

A friend and I were talking about this today.
AZ is about 8 dollars, versus 40 bucks for Pfizer (Aus).
And from what I have read Pfizer have claimed marvellous results, AZ less but in fact they seem similar in real life.
Blood clots have appeared in normal distribution in people regardless of which vaccine they received (ie numbers no different to what you would expect at any point)
yet all we hear is how AZ is dreadful and Pfizer is the preferred option.
They have done an amazing job and I will be happy to have AZ when we finally start the programme properly here.

The other vaccine companies must be delighted with the negative publicity for AZ. If people are put off using it there'll be more £££s for them.

Of course the AZ vaccine is being trashed, it's being supplied at cost for God's sake! Every person who is vaccinated with AZ vaccine is someone not being vaccinated with a for-profit alternative.

It's not in the interests of any "Big Pharma" company's profits for their competition to have a vaccine that is pretty much as effective as their own but sold much cheaper. Therefore it's important they lobby the right people, have the right words in the right ears and pay the right bribes to ensure that they attack AZ with whatever means they have available.

Why do you think most vaccine developers have spent a fortune in the race to be first (or early) to the party? It's not altruism, it's the fact that they will make a fortune.

and now Boris says they're doing it for greed and capitalism. Charming I'm sure. Wonder if that also applies to my colleagues and neighbour who are putting in the hours volunteering at the vaccine centres. The bastards.

@skirk64

Of course the AZ vaccine is being trashed, it's being supplied at cost for God's sake! Every person who is vaccinated with AZ vaccine is someone not being vaccinated with a for-profit alternative.

It's not in the interests of any "Big Pharma" company's profits for their competition to have a vaccine that is pretty much as effective as their own but sold much cheaper. Therefore it's important they lobby the right people, have the right words in the right ears and pay the right bribes to ensure that they attack AZ with whatever means they have available.

Why do you think most vaccine developers have spent a fortune in the race to be first (or early) to the party? It's not altruism, it's the fact that they will make a fortune.

I'm a huge fan of modern medicine and the vital role played by pharmaceutical companies and the skills and dedication of their scientists, engineers, logistics etc. But it does seem like maybe the relentless negativity towards AZ may be being driven by the money men and marketeers. The European politicians who seem to be complicit may have been subjected to 'nudges' which suited their own agendas.

@MarinPrime

The other vaccine companies must be delighted with the negative publicity for AZ. If people are put off using it there'll be more £££s for them.

I wonder if Pfizer and others are deliberately helping to stir the pot.

I’m extremely ashamed of the way the EU are targeting AZ when it’s well known all Vaccines have side effects, it’s quite clear it’s more political/economical sabotage rather than health concerns.

@skirk64

Of course the AZ vaccine is being trashed, it's being supplied at cost for God's sake! Every person who is vaccinated with AZ vaccine is someone not being vaccinated with a for-profit alternative.

It's not in the interests of any "Big Pharma" company's profits for their competition to have a vaccine that is pretty much as effective as their own but sold much cheaper. Therefore it's important they lobby the right people, have the right words in the right ears and pay the right bribes to ensure that they attack AZ with whatever means they have available.

Why do you think most vaccine developers have spent a fortune in the race to be first (or early) to the party? It's not altruism, it's the fact that they will make a fortune.

Yes this.

Although we’ll all lose out in next pandemic if no one touches at cost with barge poll

Honestly, I don't think so. It would be a huge risk to assume that you can trash one covid vaccine and then just hope that manufactured level of vaccine hesitancy won't spill out to all covid vaccines. Besides, they are the only ones who seem inclined to tackle governments for the increasing levels of vaccine nationalism and willing to point out the international effort required to produce a vaccine, meanwhile all the other companies are sitting on their hands and hoping for the best.

^^ In response to Campion's post re Pfizer.

I absolutely believe this:

Of course the AZ vaccine is being trashed, it's being supplied at cost for God's sake! Every person who is vaccinated with AZ vaccine is someone not being vaccinated with a for-profit alternative.

Who is benefitting from the trashing of AZ? That is the question we all need to ask...

I’m extremely ashamed of the way the EU are targeting AZ when it’s well known all Vaccines have side effects, it’s quite clear it’s more political/economical sabotage rather than health concerns
I feel the same. I also wonder if rival companies are stirring the pot too because AZ is being supplied at cost, whereas rivals are charging substantially more.

The concerning thing is that it fans the flames of anti-vaxxers and risks increasing vaccine hesitancy at a time when we need people to be vaccinated. It also might mean that in future AZ is less likely to do anything at cost again should another pandemic happen (which is probably what the other big companies want).

Although we’ll all lose out in next pandemic if no one touches at cost with barge poll

... and that of course would also benefit the investors in any new vaccines.

I genuinely think that if a company developed a vaccine for all cancers people wouldn’t take it.

The hpv vaccine met with resistance.

When you think the first inoculations were a scratch on your arm and some cow pox pus smeared into it 🤦🏻‍♀️ & people did it because it was better than catching small pox.

It's entirely possible for one part of an organisation to push a particular message without due regard to the wider implications which are clearly recognised by other parts. So you could have on the one hand, 'let's undermine a rival and the notion of doing anything at cost' but on the other hand 'shit, of course we need to be able to export and do those idiots not know what our supply chain includes.'.

I don't think there is some underhand conspiracy going on to trash the AZ vaccine. I do wince a bit with the constant bad news flow. I think AZ won't be amazingly happy with how certain things have happened, some of it avoidable.