To really feel for the team at AZ

[andweallsingalong]

AFAIK AZ are the only company in the world to have produced a covid vaccine at cost. Their product is far cheaper than equivalent products, which benefits all of us.

They launched very quickly and it seems put in some extremely long hours, even over Christmas to get the job done. No doubt putting in similar long hours to fix teething problems beyond their control.

They've produced millions of doses of vaccine with no profit and continue to do so making a massive difference globally to the pandemic. They've set up manufacturing plants in other countries in partnership with local agencies, when it would no doubt have been easier to stay local with people who know their processes and are close by in case of teething problems.

Absolute legends in my book, each and every person involved.

Yet, instead of saying "Thanks, you're so much cheaper this will make a huge difference to our economy. We'll pay what's asked and trust you'll reinvest if it comes in cheaper than expected." Some countries haggled over price - whilst paying several times more for comparable products.

Every day there's someone having a go in the press.

I just think if I had worked my ass of to produce a viable vaccine, at cost, made it available globally. No matter what the teething problems with some of the factories if I had all the flack they're getting I'd be wondering if it was worth it!

The level of animosity towards anything U.K. / pharma (esp both) is extreme

That is what you get when you are very very good at something.
Jealousy.

Well good example of how the EU basically resorts to bullying out what it wants despite it being utterly their fault and their contracts with AZ only referring to AZ making their best endeavours to deliver

Pfzier also walked away from a billion dollar takeover of AZ back in 2014 when AZ bosses backed by U.K. government refused to sell.
From what I can see pfzier have only really commmented when it looked like their supply chains might be affected. They haven’t really defended AZ other than to protect themselves.

YANBU they are heroes in my eyes and I am so grateful to them and the volunteers in trials (including my nephew) for this feat.

I have nothing but praise for the scientists at AZ (I know a few of them!) and I know how hard they have worked to get us to the stage where we can roll out the vaccine as quickly as we are doing. I will take the vaccine without hesitation when it is my turn. I get really angry when I hear people with no actual knowledge or qualifications telling people to 'do their own research' (by which they mean read conspiracy theories on the internet) rather than listen to the scientists and medics who actually HAVE done a lot of actual research.

However, for balance, I wanted to point out that 'at cost' does not necessarily have the meaning that most people think. I don't know the details of the arrangement with AZ but have worked on deals with other big companies where there was a requirement to be 'not for profit'. In most of the deals I saw acceptable costs included paying subsidiary or related companies for services at the market rate. So for example, if the contract with company X stated price was 'at cost', company X could still pay related companies Y, Z etc their usual customer price (including the usual profit element) for materials/producing a product etc. It would still count as 'at cost' to company X as long as they didn't add any extra profit so the organisation as a whole could make quite a bit of money. Having said that, AZ are clearly much cheaper than the others and not taking the sort of super profits big pharma would usually want for all that research.

I feel I speak for many of my fellow ex pharma scientists when I say that we would be happy with freedom from abuse.

I bet

I was able to go a short bus journey to get my Covid 19 first vaccine. Only because of AZ, otherwise it would have been a longer journey. I am able bodied but for some it could have meant they could have the jab sooner or without great travel expense.

I for one am very grateful and agree with the OPs sentiment.

My jaw dropped when I heard Fergus Walsh saying that he'd been told by a source from AZ that they wouldn't do this again. I think that's a pretty damning indictment of the way this has been handled and the negativity they have faced.

I work for a big CRO supporting pharma companies who develop drugs (including vaccines!). I also work with banks and investors who put money towards drug development. Yes there is also a financial angle BUT these people are people first. They care. They work hard and they genuinely care about patients.

I can’t believe that people are blaming the issues AZ are struggling with on Pfizer!!!! This is politicians being politicians. This is not a fight between drug companies!

Thank you Astra Zeneca! I for one massively appreciate what you've done and that you've made me safer.

The difference in cost between the AZ and Pfizer jabs demonstrates the profit being foregone by AZ - billions by the time everyone has been vaccinated. Don't forget there are the Covax vaccines too. In addition to this think of all the staff and management the which is tied up and could have been spent on something more profitable for AZ.

An absolutely amazing humanitarian move by AZ and as far as I know, the only one of the big Pharma companies to do this. The others are just getting rich off the back of the pandemic. Frankly I think we should all be campaigning for Pfizer to sell their jabs for the same prize as AZ

I do think the journos have massively fallen down on this. Its easier to relay whatever the petty snipe of the week is from the Europeans than to actually sit down and think and produce a measured article comparing what the various drug companies will get out of this. Oh and looking at Western countries' contributions to Covax. That shows a totally different story to the ones dominating the press.

@iMatter

My jaw dropped when I heard Fergus Walsh saying that he'd been told by a source from AZ that they wouldn't do this again. I think that's a pretty damning indictment of the way this has been handled and the negativity they have faced.

It was a really frank interview wasn’t it? I appreciated his take on the US situation too

The Jenner Institute specifically chose AZ to manufacture the vaccine as they would not be doing it for profit, and Jenner wanted the vaccine to be for the common good. Let's not forget also that AZ invested millions in producing the vaccine before it was approved for use, in the hope that it would be. They would have lost that money had the vaccine not been approved.

I don’t know. They seem to be a bit of a disaster. Found a higher efficacy in a trial by accident when some participants were given the wrong dose, over promised on their supply schedules, taking the genuine view submitted out of date information to the FDA when trying to get approval, taking the non genuine view submitted incorrect and misleading information to the FDA instead of the most up to date. Issues with various paperwork for production plants being submitted. Finding vaccines they didn’t know they had. The vaccine itself is great which is of course the main thing but the company, logistical and business side is a bit of a mess.

@Anycrispsleft

I feel I speak for many of my fellow ex pharma scientists when I say that we would be happy with freedom from abuse.

You speak for me. As a current pharma employee, you speak for me.

Well, I for one am grateful to both AZ and the NHS. I've had my first jab, free at the point of delivery by skilled staff.
Thanks for that!

@sjfjsnfkdhsbd

If you do something because you want applause and praise then you are doing it for the wrong reason.

No, they just want to do their (very important) jobs without being verbally attacked for it As far as I am concerned the scientists who created the vaccines deserve praise as much as NHS workers and nobody clapped for them, gave them discounts in shops or sent them takeaways at work.

@ForeverAintEnough12 do we know thats all true though ?
Like supply issues if contract didn't state a time etc and pfizer has had some delays as well, the paperwork assume you mean in the eu , well we have no idea why but it does appear the site set up later than uk ones etc
And I didn't think they didn't know the vaccines they had more that was found when checked by officials ? Also as for wrong info has that been proven yet ?
Im only playing devils advocate here as very much two sides to stories and we are often only getting one side and in media which I often take with a pinch of salt as they print one thing one day and something different the next

@Beamur

Well, I for one am grateful to both AZ and the NHS. I've had my first jab, free at the point of delivery by skilled staff. Thanks for that!

Hear hear!! Me too!

(And the vaccine volunteers!)

@donewithitalltodayandxmas they are all things I’ve read in the media about AZ since they started creating the vaccine. I went back and found links.

Do you mean you don’t believe anything you read in the mainstream media or that you think there’s a conspiracy for AZ from the very start as that seems odd to me when there is such demand for vaccines.

Re giving wrong doses out in trial (November 2020):
But since unveiling the preliminary results, AstraZeneca has acknowledged a key mistake in the vaccine dosage received by some study participants, adding to questions about whether the vaccine’s apparently spectacular efficacy will hold up under additional testing. Scientists and industry experts said the error and a series of other irregularities and omissions in the way AstraZeneca initially disclosed the data have eroded their confidence in the reliability of the results

www.google.ie/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/11/25/business/coronavirus-vaccine-astrazeneca-oxford.amp.html

Re supply issues (Feb 2021): ^AstraZeneca Plc has told the European Union it expects to deliver less than half the COVID-19 vaccines it was contracted to supply in the second quarter, an EU official told Reuters on Tuesday.

www.google.ie/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKBN2AN1ZY

Even if the schedule is ‘best efforts’ who was doing those forecasts to over promise so much. Estimates should have been conservative if they were unsure of their capabilities and having worked on forecasting myself previously factors such as a production issues or supply of key ingredients should have been factored in. A time was specified e.g provide by end Q2.

Re paperwork for Halix plant and EU querying why it hasn’t been completed (March 2021): The Halix plant has been unable to deliver to the EU because it does not have authorisation from the European Medicines Agency. The company has insisted the approval process is “on track”, but commission and EU member state officials have asked why it hasn’t been completed already.

www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/48b28b7e-9161-47a4-9c37-cf89fea2bc12

Re providing incorrect data to FDA (March 2021):
The company’s decision to report the “outdated” data could further erode confidence in the vaccine, says Fauci. “I look upon this as an unforced error, really,” he says. “There was no need for this to happen.”

time.com/5949276/astrazeneca-vaccine-outdated-data/

As I said in my previous post the vaccine is good and that’s the main thing in all this but I can see why the company has come in for criticism as it’s logistics, business and communications side has had issues.

@Beamur

Well, I for one am grateful to both AZ and the NHS. I've had my first jab, free at the point of delivery by skilled staff. Thanks for that!

Yes! Very much so.