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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To request ex takes holidays with child on his week?

79 replies

TootsyPops · 25/03/2021 06:24

Myself and my ex have a court order in place where he has our daughter for 5 overnights per fortnight and he gets 1 week holiday twice per year while she’s pre school age. This is a brand new order and I’ve been thinking about holidays. His contact is bunched into one week from Friday to Friday. The following week (Friday to Friday) she is solely with myself and my other children.

Because it has been set up like this I’m thinking of asking him to agree that neither of us takes holidays (unless absolutely necessary) on each other’s “weeks”. So I won’t take his contact time and he won’t take mine effectively. Or should the two weeks holiday per year be 14 extra days for him? I would be considerate of his contact and wouldn’t book a two week holiday, nor would I book a one week holiday on his weeks even though I technically could.

AIBU to ask him to show the same consideration where it’s possible?!

OP posts:

makesIlaugh · 25/03/2021 08:38

FFS14 days extra a year and you're quibbling? Do you time drop off and pick up to the minute?

BigPaperBag · 25/03/2021 08:42

YANBU. My husband’s ex does this and just books things on ‘our’ weekends with no regard as to whether we’ve booked and paid to do something. We’re just informed (sometimes last minute) that it’s happening and that’s that. We, on the other hand, have literally never done that. She’d probably tell us to do one anyway 😂

BewareTheBeardedDragon · 25/03/2021 08:47

OP - do you think your dd would be distressed if she spent 13 days without you? If so, then this is not a petty issue. If you think she'd be fine then it's probably easier to let it go. If ex is abusive then he's unlikely to be receptive to a request to take his holidays only in week 1 of the pattern, and if you show him that it bothers you, he is more likely to do what you don't want to upset/control you.

If you genuinely believe your dd would not cope well with the long separation then I do think you should seek clarity from the court. There is a reason you had to go there in the first place, don't hand him any more power.

LemonTT · 25/03/2021 08:49

I think you need to get the actual wording in the order reviewed and explained to you by your solicitor. Because it would usually mean that those 2 weeks are on top of the other time he has with the child. That means it comes out of your time.

There’s no point in asking him because you are in court due to not being able to agree.

Original poster

TootsyPops · 25/03/2021 09:01

I appreciate the helpful comments, those saying I’m being unreasonable as well. It helps to have input.

I do not appreciate being called awkward when I’m not the awkward one. I have to be proactive to protect myself because he is so controlling and I am scared of him. If it’s not in the order I will say yes to everything just so he doesn’t get angry. I’m aware this is not healthy but at this point in my recovery that’s where I’m at. It’s not point scoring. It’s not about x number of days although it might come across as such. She’s very little, if he has her for a full week and then has his usual contact the following week she’s only home for 2 days out of 14. If he tags a week holiday onto his long weekend she’s not home for 10 days. When she’s older and at school this won’t be an issue. He is so set on getting her as much as he can to the point of working out percentages. So he will 100% take advantage of an unclear order just to spite me.

I won’t be going back to court, I will attempt to discuss it with him and agree to something that will be best for our daughter. I just wanted input before I even attempt that. Judging by most people’s opinions I probably won’t bother.

OP posts:

Original poster

TootsyPops · 25/03/2021 09:03

The order is lives with me and spends time with her dad. The judge was very clear this was to protect me and give me some semblance of control because he is SO overbearing and bullying. Judges words!

OP posts:

KingdomScrolls · 25/03/2021 09:18

Why would it be his contact when they got back? Surely if he took her for a week during your usual time, when they got back she'd come to you and start again from that point in the schedule? Not go to him for another five days

Original poster

TootsyPops · 25/03/2021 09:28

If he takes her on “my” week, then the following week is his regular contact week which is court ordered. He wouldn’t agree to miss his usual contact week even if he had just had her for a full week.

OP posts:

BewareTheBeardedDragon · 25/03/2021 09:31

Tootsy has the court order just been recently made? If so then it's fine to go back to them to ask for clarity. That doesn't mean making a fresh application and opening a whole new set of proceedings. The court will know what they intended with the order, and if this is not clear from the wording they need to amend the wording to make it clear. It is not unreasonable to ask them to do this.

Original poster

TootsyPops · 25/03/2021 09:41

The order hasn’t even been submitted yet! My barrister is doing that as my ex is unrepresented. I have the judgement though and it just says two weeks holiday time. She makes reference to the fact my daughter hasn’t spent more than 3 nights away from me yet so the holiday time would have to be “carefully managed”.

I have been emailing my barrister but she was in court yesterday so I haven’t heard back. Hopefully she’ll be able to tell me what the order will specify and if there needs to be any clarification from the judge.

OP posts:

BewareTheBeardedDragon · 25/03/2021 09:43

That's good - likely it can be sorted without any need to talk to ex about it. Good luck

tisonlymeagain · 25/03/2021 09:45

Totally unreasonable. Regardless of court order, see the bigger picture. It's a holiday for YOUR child. Who cares whose week it is? (And I say this as someone who co-parents with an ex)

Original poster

TootsyPops · 25/03/2021 10:13

Yes well you don’t co parent with my ex. And I also co parent in an entirely peaceful way with my other children’s dad so I’m perfectly aware of how to make it work.

OP posts:

Starlight39 · 25/03/2021 11:08

I totally get why this is an issue and I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. If he took his week of holiday in "your" week, she'd barely see you or her siblings for 3 full weeks. Can you speak with your solicitor about this to get it written in? Either he must take DD on holiday during his week and you take her on holiday during your week. Or if he takes hol on your week, the weekly regime resets to become your week on her return rather than being his week again.

Original poster

TootsyPops · 25/03/2021 11:18

It’s been sorted, thank you for all the responses. For anyone interested, the week he takes as holiday cancels out the fortnightly arrangement we have in place. It’s up to him how he takes it but if for example he has her Wednesday to Wednesday and his weekend is within those days, when he gets back she would come back to me and his contact schedule restarts the following week. If he’s sensible he’ll take her Friday to Friday where possible and that would mean he gains two nights and the schedule isn’t affected when he brings her back. Not how I do it with my other kids dad, but this is how the courts organises it. It’s an absolute headache and I don’t know why anyone would want to go through court unless it was absolutely unavoidable. In our case, it was!

OP posts:

RandomMess · 25/03/2021 11:22

I am glad it's been clarified for your peace of mind. I either remember your previous threads or someone with very similar circumstances. It's horrible to not be able to escape an abusive bullying ex because of shared DC and completely different to being able to co-parent

RedMarauder · 25/03/2021 11:45

@Onlinedilema

Was he abusive op? Is that the ptoblem? Quite frankly it is rare for a father to want to spend so much time with his child, most dont.

Why do you think father's don't love their children and want to spend time with them?

There are actually plenty of fathers around who want to spend time with their children, regardless of their age, and are happy caring for them without the mother around.

BewareTheBeardedDragon · 25/03/2021 12:42

I'm glad it's sorted tootsy - make sure the order is written in a way that makes this crystal clear. Is your barrister drafting it? You don't want it to leave any wriggle room in a situation like this.

Original poster

TootsyPops · 25/03/2021 13:30

@BewareTheBeardedDragon yes she is. Legal jargon is so complicated I’ve asked if she can put it quite simply.

OP posts:

Onlinedilema · 25/03/2021 18:30

Redmarauder because that is what I have seen. The vast majority of RPs are women. There are also a huge amount of feckless fathers. No matter what your personal experience is, the facts are that a huge number of men neglect their children. Why do you think the CSA and subsequent bodies where set up, not because the majority of non resident parents support their children obviuosly.

Changemaname1 · 25/03/2021 18:44

I totally get what you are saying op

However as others have said as it stipulates he gets two weeks on top of his normal 5 day thing I’d assume this is an extra and will eat into your time

Soontobe60 · 26/03/2021 07:32

@Onlinedilema

Absolutely appalling statement. I have witnessed many mothers use their children as a means of punishing their fathers, but I know its not all mothers. At the end of the day, children should not be used as pawns between warring parents. They should have equal access to both parents. If one parent thinks their child shouldn’t be away from them for more than a few days, then why shouldn’t that be the same for the other parent? If a couple split up when a child is, say, 2, that child has spent 2 years with both parents. The biggest trauma is that they then only see 1 parent - usually the father - once a week or so. How can that be right? Are we really still saying that fathers matter less than mothers?

Onlinedilema · 26/03/2021 19:01

Soontobe60 please highlight exactly where I have said fathers matter less than mothers.

Soontobe60 · 28/03/2021 08:15

@Onlinedilema

Soontobe60 please highlight exactly where I have said fathers matter less than mothers.

If you read what I wrote I didn’t say ‘you’, I said ‘we’ as in the collective ‘we’. The whole debate around caring for children assumes that mothers are the default parent, fathers come second best. Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a belief held by both men and women.

Onlinedilema · 28/03/2021 11:09

Again you are misquoting me. I have not said that fathers are less important than mothers.
You have quoted me as making an appalling statement. What I have written is fact. Explain to me why a government would spend millions of pounds on a system trying to ensure feckless parents pay towards the upkeep of their own children, if the vast majority of NRP willingly and voluntarily contribute financially.
Just because you are, or happen to know (or think you know because actually unless you are the mother or father you don't know do you) a handful of 'good menz' you really are cluelees.
The majority of men do not want full custody. The majority of men do not want shared custody. A good proportion of men don't want much contact at all, or want to be Disney Dad.
Don't talk bollocks, deal with facts. Check out the facts. The vast majority of NRP 's which are men whether you like it or not, do not willingly pay child support. I can't remember the exact figures but it's around only 1 in 4 or less pay the recommended amount. Some thing like 50% paid nothing or the minimum £5. Of the NRPs who do pay the recommended minimum amount, this 25% or less included everyone who has made ' a payment'. So in reality includes those who start paying them stop and those who might skip payments etc etc.

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