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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To request ex takes holidays with child on his week?

79 replies

TootsyPops · 25/03/2021 06:24

Myself and my ex have a court order in place where he has our daughter for 5 overnights per fortnight and he gets 1 week holiday twice per year while she’s pre school age. This is a brand new order and I’ve been thinking about holidays. His contact is bunched into one week from Friday to Friday. The following week (Friday to Friday) she is solely with myself and my other children.

Because it has been set up like this I’m thinking of asking him to agree that neither of us takes holidays (unless absolutely necessary) on each other’s “weeks”. So I won’t take his contact time and he won’t take mine effectively. Or should the two weeks holiday per year be 14 extra days for him? I would be considerate of his contact and wouldn’t book a two week holiday, nor would I book a one week holiday on his weeks even though I technically could.

AIBU to ask him to show the same consideration where it’s possible?!

OP posts:

Santatizer · 25/03/2021 06:54

As a PP said, it sounds to me like he is entitled to 5 nights per fortnight plus an extra 2 weeks for holidays, which would by necessity come out of your contact time since when else can he take this?! It depends whether the CO means he is entitled to 2 weeks of time for holidays or entitled to take her on holiday for a total of two weeks of his contact time. It's a bit confusing tbh. I imagine his two weeks of holiday time is to acknowledge that he apparently never gets her during a weekend, so I think on balance that YABU.

midnightstar66 · 25/03/2021 06:56

From what you've said he's to get an extra 2 weeks on top of his regular days so yes that will technically be in your tune but it will be his time as it's his extra - you just need to decide between yourself when this will be. Don't go putting in extra rules that will likely cause issues and restrict you in the long run too. A bit of flexibility goes a long way for the DC's sake

Santatizer · 25/03/2021 06:57

Sorry I misread - I see he does get every other weekend. Still, if the CO provides for two additional holiday weeks, it will sometimes have to come out of "your" time - how is he meant to take 2 weeks of holiday in chunks of 4 days then 3 days, making sure you always get your random Tuesday during the week when his contact takes place?

ThatWouldBeEnough · 25/03/2021 06:58

Is this your pattern:
M-Th you
F-M ex
Tu you
W-F ex

And you want to make sure that he doesn’t take her on holiday during your M-Th, meaning you’d only see her on the Sunday and then 10 days later?

I think the holidays weeks are supposed to be in addition to his regular contact days so yes he would take them in his days. Do you have a similar provision though? What if you wanted a week away?

MazekeenSmith · 25/03/2021 07:02

Are your holidays set out in the order too? It appears that he can have 11 days straight in holidays but the most you can have is 9? There should be provision for you to have the same in school holidays too if you want to go away for longer.

Blankscreen · 25/03/2021 07:02

The 5 nights every two weeks wouldn't actually even allow you ex to take dd on holiday for a week so I think it is obvious that the 2 weeks are in addition.

It's sounds that you are being deliberately awkward

Is the maintenance based on the number of nights and does the holiday tip you into another bracket?

Dh had exactly this issues with his ex being so awkward over everything. They ended up back in court and the judge was furious saying it was obvious to everyone that the holiday was in addition to regular access .....

DHs ex was an absolute control freek with access and was so awkward for years She shot her self in the foot though because as DSS got older and wanted to see his dad more she just refused - just an extra night here or there nothing major . He know lives with his dad and doesn't see his mum!! And despite dh encouraging him to, he doesn't want to until he can drive so he can just leave when he wants - his words.

bobsandbits · 25/03/2021 07:02

From what you said he gets 5 days in a fortnight plus two lots of one week for holiday.
Those two weeks are extra time. They are in addition to the 5 days every fortnight.
So yes you are being unreasonable then.

Onlinedilema · 25/03/2021 07:06

Was he abusive op? Is that the ptoblem? Quite frankly it is rare for a father to want to spend so much time with his child, most dont.

Billandben444 · 25/03/2021 07:07

Apologies but I can't get my head round the actual days of the week (still on first cuppa!) but would it make a difference if the 2 weeks had to be taken separately until she is older? It's a long time to be away from mum when little. How does it work when you want to take her away? I think you need to contact the court for some clarity. Good luck.

DYWMB · 25/03/2021 07:07

@PicaK

I'm looking to find your daughter in this and her rights for holiday time with her dad.

Your post is uncomfortable to read because you seem more concerned about counting his days and making sure he has the absolute minimum number possible.

There might be things I'm missing but, as an outsider looking in, I can't see that an extra 14 days a year is a big deal. It's not extra time for him but for her.

Yeah this. If my husband wants to spend more time with his kids he can, if we got divorced I'd not care. A lovely holiday is far more important than specific days. Unless they're very very tiny I can't see a problem.

Original poster

TootsyPops · 25/03/2021 07:21

He is/was abusive to me but not our child. There’s provision in place so I have limited contact with him.

So to clarify he has Friday to Monday, and on the same week he has Wednesday to Friday. Then for a full week she is with me. Obviously a full weeks holiday for him would mean he gets two days of “my” time and thanks perfectly reasonable of course.

The comments saying I’m being awkward, unfortunately some parents need very specific orders to protect one of the parties from abuse of the arrangements. Sometimes with the best will in the world one reasonable parent does not equal a reasonable co parenting relationship. It takes two. I have 5 years experience co parenting with my first husband and our older children. We are both respectful, flexible and forgiving. That’s the ideal but not the norm.

OP posts:

Original poster

TootsyPops · 25/03/2021 07:23

The order is for two weeks holiday, split into two individual weeks. Because our daughter is still little.

OP posts:

Houlyerwhisht · 25/03/2021 07:25

It depends on how well you both get on and how invested you both are in the welfare of your child over sticking to an order to the letter.

We were lucky that we both stuck to our (non court-ordered) arrangements but they fell away when it came to holidays/other things going on like when he was nursing his Mum...

Soontobe60 · 25/03/2021 07:27

@TootsyPops

Unfortunately I can’t trust him to be reasonable it’s just not his way. I’m certainly not concerned about being flexible, I know it looks like I’m just concerned about number of days. Obviously there’s more history to this. But maybe it’s an irrelevant concern if the order means he gets 14 days EXTRA. In which case if he chooses to have his weeks on “my” days it’s not the unreasonable is it. It’s just a brand new arrangement and I’m struggling to get my head around it. I appreciate the feedback

When my DS was younger we did alternate weeks, so he would be with his DF Mon pm - Mon am, then with me Mon pm - Mon am. We each took him on holidays, for a fortnight at a time. We didn't stipulate when each other booked holidays, just that they didn’t clash. After the holiday, DS went straight to the other parent for their week. If they came back on a Saturday, they’d go to the other parent a day early but stay til the regular change over day. Birthdays and Christmases were taken alternately, from the evening before to the morning after the birthday (or Boxing Day). He absolutely didnt mind, we would speak on the phone if he was away with his DF, and vice versa. I doubt she missed the absent parent one iota as she was too busy having fun on holiday!

OP, in your arrangements, currently you have your child far more than your ex does. He has her 144 days and 221 days for you - that equates to you having her 11 weeks more than him. The 14 days are IN Addition to his usual 5 days per fortnight and as such will have to be on your weeks. He may agree to change his regular weeks so that if he has her on his usual week Wed - Fri, goes on holiday Sat - Fri then she returns to you for a week on what would have been his regular week, but he may not be able to do that if he has arrangements in place for her when its his regular week.
By specifying that he only takes her on holiday on his regular weeks, you're reducing the number of days overall so his contact would go down to 130 - almost 18 weeks, and yours would increase to 235 - almost 36 weeks.
The other aspect is trying to get holidays at very specific times. If the weeks’ holidays are not specified, then its much more flexible for both parents. Limiting it to specific weeks makes it much more difficult.

I’d say you need to be very careful here - if you start trying to control his holiday weeks he's going to push back and control other things wherever he can.

LadyGAgain · 25/03/2021 07:28

@PicaK

I'm looking to find your daughter in this and her rights for holiday time with her dad.

Your post is uncomfortable to read because you seem more concerned about counting his days and making sure he has the absolute minimum number possible.

There might be things I'm missing but, as an outsider looking in, I can't see that an extra 14 days a year is a big deal. It's not extra time for him but for her.

This. Absolutely. Why you're getting yourself all worked up over 2 1 week holidays is odd. I'm in my 40's and eternally grateful that my divorced parents were nothing like this.

minniemoocher · 25/03/2021 07:44

The contact time (5 nights in 14) is separate from holidays so he can take 2 weeks in addition. But equally if you are wanting to go on holiday you can overlap with his contact time. If possible try to have some flexibility because it works better for both of you, the most important thing is for your dc to have a relationship with both parents, not a points scoring exercise in nights per year!

Wishitsnows · 25/03/2021 07:53

Is your dd going to be OK being away from you for that length of time. I guess even if she isn't you have no choice. Really hard situation

CandyLeBonBon · 25/03/2021 07:56

I feel sorry for your daughter - that's so confusing!

sassbott · 25/03/2021 08:07

Op. I think it’s pretty clear that holiday time is in addition to regular contact. That’s why it’s been separated and mapped out specifically as ‘holiday’ vs run of the mill contact.

If they weren’t separate then the order wouldn’t even mention holidays.

CombatBarbie · 25/03/2021 08:17

I'd go back to court to amend the order to make it more clear. Is there a reason why it can't be 50/50 week on week off, I'm just confused why his days are all on same week if its supposed to be per fortnight.

sassbott · 25/03/2021 08:25

Don’t go back to court. FGS, do people here have any idea of just how slammed/ backed up the family court system actually is?
Try and work with the existing order, get the dates set out. It’s two extra weeks in the year!

The courts do not have the time to deal with this petty BS. They have very real problems they are trying to deal with.

Tinydinosaur · 25/03/2021 08:28

It reads to me like those two weeks are additional to his 5 days. So should be taken in "your time".

Tigerchips · 25/03/2021 08:29

"I’m thinking of asking him to agree that neither of us takes holidays (unless absolutely necessary) on each other’s “weeks”. So I won’t take his contact time and he won’t take mine effectively"

So when would you like him to take her on holiday if you don't give up any of "your" time? It can't come from anywhere else can it?

Whereas you have the luxury of choice as you have her for a full unbroken week every single fortnight.

Why deny your daughter a holiday just to be petty?

Wishitsnows · 25/03/2021 08:29

I imagine the courts are busy but contract arrangements aren't necessarily petty. I imagine there are many men that use contact to continue to control and emotionally abuse exes. Not saying that's the case here I don't know

Thepilotlightsgoneout · 25/03/2021 08:38

I get what you mean. If he takes an actual week-long holiday, you want it to be in the first week of your two-week pattern, which is when he has all his contact, not in the second week of your two-week pattern, which is the week you have her the whole time.

Sounds reasonable but as the court order says five overnights PLUS two week long holidays, I’m not sure you could stop him.

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