To think that the EU have done more to endorse Brexit in the last 2 weeks than the UK managed in nearly 5 years

[Butterflyfluff]

I’ll start by saying I’ve never thought Brexit was in the long term interest of the UK and still don’t

But dear God, the EU’s behaviour over vaccinations and, in particular, the blatant prejudice around the Astra Zeneca vaccine has done more to endorse the UK leaving than anything that has been said in the UK before, during and after the vote

Maybe it’s the EU version of contract law

We got it wrong oh screw you then idiots version

Oh dear, I really can't be arsed with so much stupid...

You're funny.

And if it's not an EU law that we signed up to @HannibalHayes, it can't be contract law because we don't have a contract with the EU... I'm really stupid and puzzled here, please help!

Maybe the withdrawal agreement? You know, that "oven ready" deal that Boris promised us was wonderful. That requires us to do customs checks?

Really, this is why I can't be arsed.

Going to hide this thread now, the stupid might be contagious...

@HannibalHayes

Maybe the withdrawal agreement? You know, that "oven ready" deal that Boris promised us was wonderful. That requires us to do customs checks?

Really, this is why I can't be arsed.

Going to hide this thread now, the stupid might be contagious...

You seem to be in your own world far removed from private AZ EU or U.K. contracts so probably best you do hide it

Ah, got you! See, that wasn't so hard, was it?

I think @HannibalHayes is referring to how any discussion of U.K. not exporting is that it’s totally fine as it’s in your contracts/export law. When EU then introduce a law saying they don’t need to export it’s apparently irrelevant that it’s the law they’re just the evil EU. Just a bit of a double standard really.

If you are genuinely concerned about upcoming vaccine shortages in U.K. you will be much more impacted by India’s decision to ban exports and along with it the estimated 5 million vaccines the U.K. were expecting. So I would probably spend my energy on that rather than the much smaller impact on U.K. of EU restricting exports.

@Itsalonghaul I thought you had left the thread to enjoy your life? I notice you come back to add to your selection of anti EU rhetoric!

So far we’ve had Ireland being a ‘little backwater’
UVL reminding you of a dictator as she’s German
And now Italy as the EU Mafia

Lovely!

You've reminded me that Italy were shouting about suing AstraZeneca.

How's that going for them?

I think @HannibalHayes is referring to how any discussion of U.K. not exporting is that it’s totally fine as it’s in your contracts/export law. When EU then introduce a law saying they don’t need to export it’s apparently irrelevant that it’s the law they’re just the evil EU. Just a bit of a double standard really.

Can you not see the difference between a private contract two parties agree to and state imposing a ban?

Only at cost until AZ decide it isn't (Johnson & Johnson have also committed to at cost price for the duration of the pandemic emergency). AZ has the exclusive licence for the product. The financial details are not public, so we have no way of knowing if they are being sold at cost. Or will in the perpetuity part. We don't know how long immunity lasts or if we will have to get regular updated vaccines for the different strains going forward. When not at cost.

AstraZeneca, which has promised not to profit from its Covid-19 vaccine “during the pandemic”, has the right to declare an end to the pandemic as soon as July 2021, according to an agreement with a manufacturer.

www.ft.com/content/c474f9e1-8807-4e57-9c79-6f4af145b686

Yes, I said earlier in the thread that AZ are supposedly going to supply it at cost in perpetuity for poorer countries. I'd be interested to see how it plays out. By the time that poorer countries get their share of supplies, the cost will probably be added onto the price in the wealthier nations anyway.

But of course the devil will be in the detail as this shows. Because it is as cheap as chips, wealthier nations have had a disproportionate dibs on it. Doses have been purchased at cost by the US although they won't allow them to be used because they haven't even approved AZ yet. The poorer countries which are supposed to get it at cost in perpetuity, aren't getting a proportionate share. So, not much use at the moment.

Poorer countries hit with higher price tag for Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine. Bangladesh, South Africa and Uganda all appear set to pay more for the vaccine than the EU.

www.politico.eu/article/astrazeneca-vaccine-cost-higher-in-poorer-countries-coronavirus/

[quote Cailleach1]Only at cost until AZ decide it isn't (Johnson & Johnson have also committed to at cost price for the duration of the pandemic emergency). AZ has the exclusive licence for the product. The financial details are not public, so we have no way of knowing if they are being sold at cost. Or will in the perpetuity part. We don't know how long immunity lasts or if we will have to get regular updated vaccines for the different strains going forward. When not at cost.

AstraZeneca, which has promised not to profit from its Covid-19 vaccine “during the pandemic”, has the right to declare an end to the pandemic as soon as July 2021, according to an agreement with a manufacturer.

www.ft.com/content/c474f9e1-8807-4e57-9c79-6f4af145b686

Yes, I said earlier in the thread that AZ are supposedly going to supply it at cost in perpetuity for poorer countries. I'd be interested to see how it plays out. By the time that poorer countries get their share of supplies, the cost will probably be added onto the price in the wealthier nations anyway.

But of course the devil will be in the detail as this shows. Because it is as cheap as chips, wealthier nations have had a disproportionate dibs on it. Doses have been purchased at cost by the US although they won't allow them to be used because they haven't even approved AZ yet. The poorer countries which are supposed to get it at cost in perpetuity, aren't getting a proportionate share. So, not much use at the moment.

Poorer countries hit with higher price tag for Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine. Bangladesh, South Africa and Uganda all appear set to pay more for the vaccine than the EU.

www.politico.eu/article/astrazeneca-vaccine-cost-higher-in-poorer-countries-coronavirus/[/quote]
Do you think there’s anything good about Az Ox vaccine?

Would you prefer it was at market price too?

@MarshaBradyo in a discussion of countries go in vaccines to other countries a law or contract is irrelevant. Both parties are legally - via law or contract - not exporting vaccines.

Also it is not as clear cut as you are making it out to be. The EU are saying that they signed a contract for AZ to produce doses for them at the Halix plant. AZ have consistently under delivered the doses they are contractually obliged to provide the EU. The EU are now saying that they will not allow export of AZ until their orders have been fulfilled. A combination of the contractual obligation of AZ to provide them to EU and an export rule to enforce it is what is happening here.

I actually started a thread about this but for what it's worth I think the EU should now get first priority on the vaccine given that were in a much better position than them. We have loads of people and almost all vulnerable people vaccinated and falling death rates. They have few people vaccinated and rising death rates, they're our neighbours, we should help them. Ignore the politics, this is a global problem and they need help. I feel exactly the same about India's export ban, if they need it more they should keep it. I know mine is a minority opinion though, 80% of posters didn't agree with me.

Oh dear, I really can't be arsed with so much stupid

Quite. You could make the dumbarsery on this thread up.

We we were better at foreign languages I would absolutely support sending vaccination teams to help out as well.

[quote EpiphanySoul1]@MarshaBradyo in a discussion of countries go in vaccines to other countries a law or contract is irrelevant. Both parties are legally - via law or contract - not exporting vaccines.

Also it is not as clear cut as you are making it out to be. The EU are saying that they signed a contract for AZ to produce doses for them at the Halix plant. AZ have consistently under delivered the doses they are contractually obliged to provide the EU. The EU are now saying that they will not allow export of AZ until their orders have been fulfilled. A combination of the contractual obligation of AZ to provide them to EU and an export rule to enforce it is what is happening here.[/quote]
I don’t get what you are saying in first para. My point is they are not the same thing so yes when state law overrides a contract the party that loses out as a result can take a position on that. Luckily for EU the U.K. has released a very co operative statement.

No I don’t think this is correct for second part.

The first 300m doses are to be produced in EU

Then it switches to U.K. production after that.

That figure hasn’t been reached so the U.K. hasn’t failed to deliver, they are not in breach of contract.

Of course the EU then has to use other tactics which is why they are getting backlash when the U.K. isn’t, as it hasn’t done anything incorrectly.

@TheKeatingFive

Oh dear, I really can't be arsed with so much stupid

Quite. You could make the dumbarsery on this thread up.

Really? Which part?

It’s a shame this is just insults rather than actual posts with insight

Luckily there is a much better thread with conversation rather than flinging insults like you’re all so stupid around. How juvenile

@MarshaBradyo are they overriding a contract though? AZ are contractually obligated to supply X amount of vaccines to EU and EU will now ensure they do this in conjunction with the export ban.

As l said before the real issue with the U.K. is India implementing an export ban and preventing AZ from meeting its contractual obligations to the U.K. as the scale of vaccines from India is so much larger than what’s due from the EU

Why no outrage over that?

[quote EpiphanySoul1]@MarshaBradyo are they overriding a contract though? AZ are contractually obligated to supply X amount of vaccines to EU and EU will now ensure they do this in conjunction with the export ban.

As l said before the real issue with the U.K. is India implementing an export ban and preventing AZ from meeting its contractual obligations to the U.K. as the scale of vaccines from India is so much larger than what’s due from the EU

Why no outrage over that?[/quote]
Yes they asked to override part of the U.K. and AZ contract which is separate to the EC and AZ contract

AZ are contractually obligated to supply X amount of vaccines

No, they're not. They're contractually obligated to use their best efforts to supply the EU with X amount of vaccines.

If it was all so cut and dried the EU would be taking them to court, not inventing new laws.

[quote EpiphanySoul1]@MarshaBradyo are they overriding a contract though? AZ are contractually obligated to supply X amount of vaccines to EU and EU will now ensure they do this in conjunction with the export ban.

As l said before the real issue with the U.K. is India implementing an export ban and preventing AZ from meeting its contractual obligations to the U.K. as the scale of vaccines from India is so much larger than what’s due from the EU

Why no outrage over that?[/quote]
I dunno, maybe partly because the Indian government haven't been going on and on about how rubbish the vaccine is that they now want to ban the export of?

Also, I believe the situation is ongoing and changing.

@Umbivalent I dunno, maybe partly because the Indian government haven't been going on and on about how rubbish the vaccine is that they now want to ban the export of?

thanks for clearing that up. so it’s not about the vaccines or vaccine shortages at all. It’s about wanting to slag off the EU because you believe they’ve slagged off a vaccine produced in U.K. by a U.K. Swedish team that for some reason posters here are taking any criticism of that vaccine as personally as if someone insulted their first born.

It’s all very odd.

No, it's about India not being MASSIVE HYPOCRITES

India also isn't handing anti-vaxxers a load of ammunition. Oh, and last time I looked, India hadn't criticised us for the speed of the MHRA licencing vaccines.

[quote EpiphanySoul1]@MarshaBradyo in a discussion of countries go in vaccines to other countries a law or contract is irrelevant. Both parties are legally - via law or contract - not exporting vaccines.

Also it is not as clear cut as you are making it out to be. The EU are saying that they signed a contract for AZ to produce doses for them at the Halix plant. AZ have consistently under delivered the doses they are contractually obliged to provide the EU. The EU are now saying that they will not allow export of AZ until their orders have been fulfilled. A combination of the contractual obligation of AZ to provide them to EU and an export rule to enforce it is what is happening here.[/quote]
The Halix plant isn't even licensed to make vaccine for the EU. Only the UK. What a joke the EU are.