To think that the EU have done more to endorse Brexit in the last 2 weeks than the UK managed in nearly 5 years

[Butterflyfluff]

I’ll start by saying I’ve never thought Brexit was in the long term interest of the UK and still don’t

But dear God, the EU’s behaviour over vaccinations and, in particular, the blatant prejudice around the Astra Zeneca vaccine has done more to endorse the UK leaving than anything that has been said in the UK before, during and after the vote

the EU are setting up a new agency called HERA

It is abit late now! The crisis of the century as VDL is so fond of calling it, is here right now. It will take them ten years to set up, and cost millions. Another gravy train. Thank god we are not paying for it anymore.

I am checking out to get on with my life! Byeeee

Hmm. So, 'we' have been campaigning for ages, have we? and a link to penny appeal.

OK, how does this admonishment work.

."nobody on here gives a damn about X!" paraphrase, "you're all f*ckers and I'm morally fabulous"

Anybody says anything, and response "how does anyone dare question me. we've been campaigning for ages on X" and then add link to a campaigning organisation.

Did we also develop the Covid vaccine? While people on here were busy not giving a damn. Add link to vaccine developers.

No, it is not too late to future proof.

@ouiouikitty I totally agree. There is a huge amount of ignorance and arrogance. The smugness is particularly distasteful. These threads confirm for me that I made the right decision recently to leave the UK.

@Cailleach1

No, it is not too late to future proof.

Well okay. But I don’t think that the EU are starting from a good base. They are catching up and have been very ignorant about building relationships with pharma.

The perception that they are arm twisters on export rules, poor negotiators and anti business (confiscating parents being mooted) is firmly on them. Truly.

You do not need to be pro Brexit to see that they have made a huge mess. Morally I believe we should assist EU MS. But the EU as an institution, no. There’s very little for us to gain there. It’s important to remember that Article 16 mess as to their bottom line. Why trust them after that?

Britain outside the EU is doing better with country to country diplomacy.

Is that a "well I wouldn't start from where you are now". Unfortunately, In the real world that is the only place one can start from.

I imagine most economic blocs are arm twisters on rules. They are not a bloc to protect outside interests.

It may just be that Britain is doing better with country to country diplomacy. Or, it may just be an internal perception. Has there been enough time for a wealth of evidence on this? How is that objectively assessed and by whom?

However, it isn't zero sum in any case. Curious how this kind offer of assistance to EU MS would manifest itself.

If anyone thinks the EU are being particularly public spirited for the world, may I direct you to their regulations, which allows the prevention of vaccine being exported to any country with a higher rate of vaccination than the EU, irrespective of whether that country has its own manufacturing capacity for vaccines.

Very aggressive to smaller countries than the EU bloc.

This would affect Britain reallocating doses to developing countries potentially also, depending on whether the EU get its act together.

Well, I think a lot of countries are doing a "My country first" action at the moment.

The US have slapped on an export ban; irrespective of whether other countries have higher rates of vaccination or not.

Have the UK actually exported/donated vaccines to poorer developing countries, then? I would be a little surprised if that is the case, as the UK is actively importing vaccines from manufacturing sites in India and other places for the UK vaccination programme. I would agree it was altruistic if it was happening.

As a fan of Europe, but not the European Commission and its bureaucracy, I feel they are damaging the whole enterprise possibly irrevocably.

Yes indeed they are. The EU has massive resources which they have squandered and now they have some good grabby regulations to penalise any country who did better. At least it’s honestly aggressive but another nail in their reputation really.

@LexMitior

Yes indeed they are. The EU has massive resources which they have squandered and now they have some good grabby regulations to penalise any country who did better. At least it’s honestly aggressive but another nail in their reputation really.

Is the yes they are that the UK is exporting/donating vaccines to other poorer or less vaccinated countries?

I would be interested in any source on that.

Sorry, not just less vaccinated countries. That should read countries with higher levels of vaccinations; just to be on a par with what it is claimed the EU are doing?

Well that’s a little academic isn’t it because the EU rate is so low! That’s why this is impressively grabby in scope, because it goes so wide. It bites in countries with no vaccine production at all!

In other words, irrespective of how badly the EU have made a mess, irrespective of the ability to organise or manage its relationships, they have the regulation to restrict exports.

Okay maybe lawful, but controversial and pretty bad for relations with any country they choose to use it against.

It’s going to incentivise supply chains that cut them out. Why would you work more with them at all on vaccines? They reserve the right to cut supply if you do better.

@LexMitior

In other words, irrespective of how badly the EU have made a mess, irrespective of the ability to organise or manage its relationships, they have the regulation to restrict exports.

Okay maybe lawful, but controversial and pretty bad for relations with any country they choose to use it against.

It’s going to incentivise supply chains that cut them out. Why would you work more with them at all on vaccines? They reserve the right to cut supply if you do better.

Producing there is risky as they can cut off supply to your customer

The announcement today is so irritating

Exactly. Don’t work with the EU on vaccines. The Commission must be on glue or utterly desperate

Desperate and frustrated going by MEP on R4 this morning. Very upset with AZ

Also started talking about incomplete data which is odd as EMA has approved. Really out of process emotions.

@Cailleach1 the uk have donated heavily to covax who have started vaccinating in some countries , they have also said they will donate vaccinations to them when enough are available
Point is all richer countries will try and vaccinate there country as a priority thats basic economics and you can't help anyone if you don't have an economy
What the eu are doing they is banning exports of bought vaccines
The usa said from beginning what they would do , hence why uk won't of tried to make orders direct with the us
They prob trusted that companies that had a base in the eu would not be forced by eu to stop sending paid for orders
Simply speaking there are not enough available vaccines in the world
If I was Az though I would be possibly looking to set up factory out of the eu if these will be required long term
If the eu are saying we have more need then within the eu the doses should surely be given to those countries that have higher deaths and cases than those that are suffering less

@jasjas1973 the eu haven't given a single vaccine to covax yet either
The uk have donated more money than the eu as well
But I believe both have said they will donate un needed vaccines , they are on the same page there

@Cailleach1 the eu are also not donating vaccines to poorer countries yet, although I believe Australia want their doses to give away which were held in the eu
UVL saying the eu have exported vaccines isn't strictly true as such as they are not eu vaccines , they are owned by who has bought them or the manufacturer depending on when ownership of sale takes place
She hasn't made the eu look good in this and many european leaders don't agree with the stance , so maybe she should of dIscussed with those countries in the eu first
If its to be believed even if they keep all uk doses it won't really speed up their vaccination as its a bit of a drop in the ocean for what they need
There are still some eu countries that won't use AZ so if they have some in stock you would hope they would send to those eu countries who need them more , surely jabs in arms wherever they are is better than in refridgerators

Hark at the Brits critising the EU, who've exported millions of vaccines to other countries, for wanting the option to control exports to countries like the UK, who've exported none. As you're own prime minister has stated, you're doing well with vaccinations because you're greedy. The EU wants vaccines to be available to everybody fairly and don't want to block all vaccine exports, just those to greedy countries who are taking everything they can get their grubby little mitts on at the expense of others.

@FatCatThinCat

Hark at the Brits critising the EU, who've exported millions of vaccines to other countries, for wanting the option to control exports to countries like the UK, who've exported none. As you're own prime minister has stated, you're doing well with vaccinations because you're greedy. The EU wants vaccines to be available to everybody fairly and don't want to block all vaccine exports, just those to greedy countries who are taking everything they can get their grubby little mitts on at the expense of others.

Ridiculous.

You’re doing badly because your vaccine procurement was poor.

Now overriding contracts.

Talk about a load of shite

And Britain is greedy. Your own Prime Minister said it.