To think that the EU have done more to endorse Brexit in the last 2 weeks than the UK managed in nearly 5 years

[Butterflyfluff]

I’ll start by saying I’ve never thought Brexit was in the long term interest of the UK and still don’t

But dear God, the EU’s behaviour over vaccinations and, in particular, the blatant prejudice around the Astra Zeneca vaccine has done more to endorse the UK leaving than anything that has been said in the UK before, during and after the vote

Also news from US about Az is good so means we have a few vaccines already with hopefully more proven to work coming soon

Vaccine research is all about international collaboration
between scientists from and in multiple countries.

The USA imports researchers from all over the world.
The UK used to.

@ListeningQuietly the uk still will , why wouldn't they?
But yes its often a multi effort which is why I am glad the uk threw money at this its the one thing they have got right

@ListeningQuietly

Vaccine research is all about international collaboration between scientists from and in multiple countries.

The USA imports researchers from all over the world.
The UK used to.

Yes, but that doesn’t really alter the strategic mess the EU has made fir itself.

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@Cailleach1 not sure if thats correct O thought india delay was because it was going elsewhere as the us have had an export ban in place from the beginning?
Do you have a source that is why its postponed ? As not what I am reading as the us have not made any recent bans [/quote]
I've posted quite a few links earlier on. It is not in question that Biden has slapped a US export ban. The SII discussing the impact of the US export ban as well.

The US have their export ban in place. Are you saying that the SII is sending AZ vaccines which were designated for the UK elsewhere?

It is political, I agree, the eu countries are giving bad press to AZ vaccine but it is because they have been provoked by UK not sending its vaccines as agreed upon.

And who suffers? Not Ursula or Boris but the little people on the ground.

@Twylar the uk didn't agree to send any vaccines and hasn't not sent any
This is the issue this is contracts with countries , neither the eu or uk own any of the companies making the vaccines

"So long as the EU set export rules, then this is only a potential advantage; aren’t they giving incentive to pharma companies to minimise, because of their sabre rattling*"
*
I doubt it. DH works in R&d and the funding money that comes from the EU is substantial. On a national and even local scale the funding is OK and you're more likely to win funding, but the country dictates what you do with it, whereas the EU can choose who gets the funding and then lets you get on with it. Also they want access to the European market. Viralgen (big US pharma) has just invested billions in Spain, for example.

@Cailleach1 no I am not saying they are sending them elsewhere at all

*millions rather than billions, it's just one company

On funding, that’s a separate issue. I’d say that companies will be watching the EU closely because of their public criticism of pharma companies and threatening patent confiscation.

It’s a good example where the UK can indicate flexibility, give funding and incentivise those companies. If the EU had done the same or EU MS had made that part of vaccine strategy then they would have done better.

Of course Britain will work this angle - it’s a comparative advantage for us. I believe it will grow.

@QuentinInQuarantino I think it will have a short term affect but long term people forget and its a big market and thats all big companies care about in the long run

@LexMitior

If you do not have vaccine nationalism, you do not get vaccines.

No pharma company is going to be interested in dealing with the EU MS because they do not need all the difficulty that comes with it.

Maybe there will be domestic production in the EU, but the problem is the same, manufacturing capacity, and frankly the EU haven’t supported that and have actually threatened that, while simultaneously not putting up money to assist those companies with risk.

The US and the UK cultivated these relationships and it has paid off. The EU has actually damaged the long term prospects of vaccine development in its borders.

Extrapolate that to other sectors during a pandemic. They have been very stupid.

Exactly this. We'd have no Moderna, J&J or Novavax vaccines if the US hadn't practiced vaccine nationalism last year. Grants were made to those companies to finance research, clinical trials, manufacturing expansion, etc.

The EU clearly sees the big pharmaceutical companies as livestock, to be milked and ordered around as they like. Business investment in the EU will be damaged for decades.

@Itsalonghaul

So you are going to wait until everyone in the world is vaccinated before going out? You have a very very long wait if we consider the EU's contribution to Covax is anything to go by jas!

Nope, uk has not allowed the export of a single vaccine, has slashed foreign aid and has zero intention of cooperation, its all hot air.

The EU either by design or default has allowed the export of over 40m doses, 10m to the UK, despite facing a repeat of last March/April because of the English variant, are you really suggesting that the EU send vaccine to countries less effected than they are facing????

I had hoped that vaccine export to other countries would happen after we had done the 1st 9 grps... nope, Johnson talks about an international effort but its all one way.... shameful.

How we have behaved will never be forgotten.

@LexMitior

On funding, that’s a separate issue. I’d say that companies will be watching the EU closely because of their public criticism of pharma companies and threatening patent confiscation.

It’s a good example where the UK can indicate flexibility, give funding and incentivise those companies. If the EU had done the same or EU MS had made that part of vaccine strategy then they would have done better.

Of course Britain will work this angle - it’s a comparative advantage for us. I believe it will grow.

Perhaps but a market of 450m people is whole lot more attractive than one of 66m. Especially when we have bitter relations with the one with 450m.

[quote donewithitalltodayandxmas]@Cailleach1 no I am not saying they are sending them elsewhere at all
[/quote]
Sorry, misunderstood.

@jasjas1973 but the uk aren't less affected really the uk has stricter lockdown still in places than some of europe
Also the eu do not own those vaccines
And the eu and uk relationship is not relative to who does trade with either if them , countries are free to create trade deals with both, also depending on the product if may make more sense to target uk or eu as european countries are very different to each other and certain products that eu countries make they won't want deals done that maybe put there product behind.

Britain hasn't blocked the export of vaccines. The UK just made better contracts according to guy verhofstadt. Tbh the EU has not looked good. The woman who was a laughing stock as German defence minister has been even worse in charge of the commission. The head of the European council had to admit he lied. The French president's ill informed lies would have made Trump blush. If the EU thought they were in the right they'd have taken AZ to court rather than blustering. Whilst we could have procured outside of the EU, we wouldn't have done. None of the other MS did so although they are now cosying up with Putin for sputnik. I am no fan of Boris and would love to have a different PM, but thank God we left.

@jasjas1973 you also forget we have not done groups 1-9 hardly any have had both vaccines ? If eu want fo give to more people why not have a larger gap
It is likely we won't have vaccinated 1-9 fully until july
I myself and my mum are in this group we have only just had our jabs and second ones due in june, others we know not had their first yet and due in a couple weeks
So your wrong we have not vaccinated groups 1-9
Also our small amount of vaccinations due would not make an indent
Why do you never answer these questions and just keep repeating how selfish the uk are ?

@jasjas1973 we also haven't slashed foreign aid for the fun of it , we have reduced the budget during a global pandemic and whilst we as a country needed to be borrowing huge amounts ,but at the same time donating a huge amount to covax which will help many countries get a vaccine
What is the eu foreign aid budget per capita?
What is the eu covax donation per capita?

@jasjas1973 no such thing as the english variant it has name kent variant but your almost implying that its the uk fault they have this ? When there is no proof where this variant came from at present just has its name due to where it was spotted,

Also as for co operation looks like your wrong in that front as well

@donewithitalltodayandxmas the EU is not a country but you can find foreign aid budgets per capita (2019) on wikipedia and if you cba to look, the uk donates less than the Netherlands, half as much as Luxembourg, more than France, much more than Italy and Spain, nothing like as much as the Nordic countries.

The UK Overseas aid budget was around £10 billion last year

Dido Harding spaffed £20 billion up against the wall failing to track test and trace last year

@jasjas1973 - is there any particular reason why the population of 66m would not do well to export vaccines and other goods to that 450m?

That would seem to be the EU’s current demand, so I expect enlargement of areas where Britain holds comparative advantage to be developed to do that.

With cumulation, you can even say such products are “made in the EU”!