To want social housing for most

[Jillybons]

I find it strange that in the U.K. we are so protective and proud of public healthcare and see it as a universal right regardless of household income (which I fully support).

But when it comes to public housing we vilify it and criticise people who have public houses as ‘less’ than those who rent privately or own houses.

Shouldn’t public housing be the standard for 90% of the population and private housing be the ‘option’ just like private healthcare?

What do you think?

You can build as much social housing as you like. Until the demand side of the equation is addressed, nothing will change.

Also, why shouldn't people be made somewhat responsible for their own circumstances. It's not everyone else's problem to provide bigger houses for those who recklessly bang out children they can't afford.

@BLToutanowhere

You can build as much social housing as you like. Until the demand side of the equation is addressed, nothing will change.

Also, why shouldn't people be made somewhat responsible for their own circumstances. It's not everyone else's problem to provide bigger houses for those who recklessly bang out children they can't afford.

Not everyone who lives in SH bangs out too many kids though. Massive generalisation there

[quote onlychildandhamster]@Wondermule I feel really bummed out that people who don't work all their lives get to use the NHS for free. On the other hand, there are people who pay 40% tax and never see a doctor in 30 years?[/quote]
What would you prefer to happen there? What about people who want to work but can't for whatever reason? Would you prefer us to be like the states? Funding for the Cancer treatment for the unemployeds children?

Social housing for all is fine in principle but can you live where you want? If I wanted social housing I might be offered something in a place I did not like at all, I've known people in the past who have found themselves in a worse situation, very stressful, and trying to move, which can take forever if it happens at all.

I really think it is better to save up for a deposit on your own place.

@jessstan2

Social housing for all is fine in principle but can you live where you want? If I wanted social housing I might be offered something in a place I did not like at all, I've known people in the past who have found themselves in a worse situation, very stressful, and trying to move, which can take forever if it happens at all.

I really think it is better to save up for a deposit on your own place.

That's a lot easier said than done

No I wouldn't agree with this approach at all.

@onlychildandhamster Agree. I love old buildings/houses If i could live in one i would. DM worries about things like ghosts. Wouldnt bother me. Its the living that worry me not the dead.

@LST well the people on this thread advocate saving a deposit for your own place so how is it not reasonable to ask people to save for their healthcare?

Its funny how people get enraged over the idea of paying for healthcare but then its somehow weird if the government builds housing for people (who can be charged according to their means). at least the people occupying the housing would pay a nominal rent or (in my ideal world) be able to buy it with a caveat that they can only sell it to people on lower incomes. However, with healthcare, its a blank cheque. the bill for the nhs grows bigger every year as lifespans grow and medical science improve but we are committed to paying for it. Its like a bottomless hole.Sooner or later, we would run out of money to pay for it. However, providing subsidized housing to the masses may not be as unsustainable if we ensure people pay what they can for it.

I am a homeowner in London so i am very exposed in the property game. But its not right that we prioritize the nhs over all other aspects of people's lives.

How does Social Housing work?

So a person is born, doesn’t work or pay taxes but expects the Government to pay?
And who pays the Goverment?
The 10% who have private housing and pay taxes for 90% of the population to have Social Housing?

As a sane person you must see the madness in what you suggest, surely?

I think social housing should be available to those who need it instead of housing benefit lining the pockets of private companies and landlords.
Fragmenting social housing reminds me of fragmenting the rail infrastructure, where the cost to taxpayers is higher than before privatisation, but all the profit goes to those already have money.

why should people have a heavily subsudised home with rooms they don't need when others need them?

Except it’s not subsidised, heavily or lightly. Anyone who lives in social housing for more than a couple of decades has essentially paid for the property.

I feel really bummed out that people who don't work all their lives get to use the NHS for free. On the other hand, there are people who pay 40% tax and never see a doctor in 30 years?

I’m one of those “on the other hand” people, tax payer for 50 years and counting, higher rate for two decades. I’m not remotely “bummed out”, I’m bloody delighted that nobody has to worry about becoming ill because they couldn’t afford treatment.

@Ladywinesalot I live in social housing but my parents own their home. Back in the late 60s it was possible to buy a place on two working class wages.

@onlychildandhamster yes its funny how we are only all in it together when it comes to Covid and saving the NHS but us a bit lower down the scale can go fuck ourselves the rest of the time.

@MercyBooth In the 80’s and 90’s it was possible to buy a house on one wage.

The house price increase is ridiculous and should have been stopped a long time ago.

Social housing does not make sense, but stopping high house prices does

@Ladywinesalot you do realize that the key workers who have kept this country going throughout this crap are likely to live in social housing. What do you think is going to happen now that many ppl have lost their jobs and homes during these endless lockdowns? A lot of those who thought it would never happen to them are going to get a nasty shock when they try and rent. Is that what you are scared of? That it might cause a change.

@Ladywinesalot the same way the NHS works. Most people would never pay the amount in taxes that is required to cover their lifesaving cancer treatment etc. Its a blessing and a relief for many people.

Except with social housing, you could charge people based on what they can afford to pay on a low income. So the government would get some money back. Unlike with the nhs, once the money is spent, its gone forever. Yes we get a healthier population and universal healthcare is essential for a civilized society but most people get more out of the nhs than they pay in which is very nice for them, but means that it isn't sustainable.

If we can support an unsustainable noble endeavour like the NHS, we can support subsidized housing for the masses. people who support the nhs have their hearts in the right place, but ultimately wouldn't ensure the future of the nhs as we don't have a way of funding it in the long term.

Social housing wasn't stigmatised pre thatcher iirc. She did a cracking job of making it a marker of scum though hey.

@onlychildandhamster Take a look at this.

twitter.com/itvnews/status/1373964055443087363?s=20

@onlychildandhamster Completely agree. And it would have a knock on effect easing pressure on the NHS if we had decent housing because it would help decrease illnesses caused by poor housing (shocking video in my link)

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

No, I want stability and a property to leave so that mine will always have somewhere to live.

Healthcare is different, it’s funded through NI and I’ve often though there should be small charges rather than free so that we have money for other things that are needed.

Only one fifth of NHS funding comes from NI. Most of it comes from general taxation.

The trouble with social housing is if the inhabitants don't own it then there is less motivation to maintain a home in good order.

I own a house and so I look after it. No-one else will pop in every 5 years and repair/redecorate etc. I upgrade windows and insulation because I pay the heating bill.

That also means I can be as individual and creative as I wish, which is important to me. Living in a rented flat (for a year) made me miserable. It didn't feel like home.

When this has been put into practice (see: Soviet Russia) the result was lots of very bad housing and overcrowding.

@MercyBooth Horrific.

See this: edition.cnn.com/2015/10/29/asia/singapore-public-housing/index.html

This is probably not achievable across the whole country, but would be beneficial in cities like Manchester, London, Cambridge, Edinburgh. It would also mean fewer londoners move to the north and buy homes, making homes more affordable for northerners.

I find that in these threads, there is a huge amount of dissonance between the Londoners/southerners and people who live in areas of cheap housing. DH and I had to save up £70k to buy my flat so I understand that not everyone can do it. However, for someone in the north, they can buy a house with a deposit of £12k (the amount my DH had in his Child ISA as a teen so if my DH was a northerner, he could have been a home owner 3 months out of uni). So its hard for them to understand how expensive housing is a problem when even teenagers can buy houses. However, just because northern housing is so severely underpriced, it doesn't mean that it would remain like that forever, which means that its going to be hard for the next generation unless we all like the idea of using our retirement monies to fund deposits for the next generation. Therefore, we should try to think up of ways to make housing more affordable.

Tightening mortgage criteria, raising interest rates might make homes cheaper, but would be politically unviable. Esp raising interest rates may make people bankrupt. Building on the greenbelt is a no go politically too. Building subsidized housing... I don't really see how this affects current homeowners as what they own is a completely different product.

Not sure if it should be standard for 90% of the population but there definitely needs to be more built.
I'm lucky I've a 3 bed HA property with a tenancy for life and I will be carried out of here in my coffin.
I spent too long in mouldy damp flats to go back when my dc grow up and leave home.
Mass social house building is what is needed. Instead of these ridiculous new build estates that boast starter homes at ridiculous prices.

It sounds awful, imo. DH and I aren't wealthy, but we prioritised our home over holidays and other expences, and so we have a house bigger than what we technically "need", since it's only the two of us and our dogs. If most people were in social housing, I'm sure we would be, too, since again, we aren't wealthy, and we'd probably end up shoved into some place smaller than we'd want.

I much prefer our current situation!

@Shnuffles if it was 90% of the population living in government built housing (like in singapore), there would be a range of housing ranging from basic to premium. my cousin's government apartment has 2 swimming pools, clubhouse, tennis courts, karaoke lounge, spa centre and jacuzzi. Its the same price as my zone 3 north london mansion flat which is a few minutes from bishops avenue. You could always go for the premium option which in london would always be a million even if its subsidized. As in covent garden a million for an apartment is a bargain.