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AIBU?

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Original poster

To keep framing foreign travel as a holiday?

295 replies

stopgap · 21/03/2021 12:50

I haven’t seen my parents in 14 months, as they’re in the UK and I’m in the US. I know it’s only semantics but I’m truly tired of UK politicians referring to foreign travel only in the context of a jolly. There must be thousands upon thousands of people in my position, desperate to see family, desperate for grandparents to see their grandchildren, and I resent the situation being presented from one perspective only.

OP posts:
ArcheryAnnie · 23/03/2021 09:27

Is there anyone that doesn't have close family and friends abroad? I don't know anyone in that position. We all have family we'd like to see - but like it or not, it is a holiday trip, not an essential trip, unless you are carers.

tl;dr you aren't special, OP.

Marvelwife123 · 23/03/2021 10:19

I understand OP, it’s rough and not having a date to look forward to is rubbish esp as they keep talking about changing the rules for International travel. We haven’t seen our family here in the UK since last summer and having the date of mid May really helps. We aren’t close enough to meet up for a walk so need to be able to stay overnight etc. They have only met their grandson once.

Although you take holidays from work to go visit family it’s not the same as an actually holiday to beach resort. I would happily give up a beach holiday to allow others to see their family.

oblada · 23/03/2021 10:35

SchrodingersImmigrant - by definition it's always the husband's fault lol Grin

oblada · 23/03/2021 10:37

ArcheryAnnie - I think the focus here is close family. I don't care about seeing my uncle/aunt and even my brother (though he did come for Xmas anyway) but yes my parents are definitely quite essential to me.
I don't think everyone has close family abroad.
There could be exceptions such as a single parent household with children under 5 to be allowed to go to their home country to seek support from their own parents. It's just an example. We've had all those bubbles here and various exceptions, it's just part of the same thing.

May17th · 23/03/2021 10:49

@SchrodingersImmigrant there’s reasons why I stated foreigners you realise that don’t you?

However based on your theory British or not that’s a lot of people that will be wanting to board a plane if that was the case! So really we all might as well get on the plane at your rate! British people have family abroad too.... so that’s a lot of people again.

May17th · 23/03/2021 10:50

@ArcheryAnnie

Is there anyone that doesn't have close family and friends abroad? I don't know anyone in that position. We all have family we'd like to see - but like it or not, it is a holiday trip, not an essential trip, unless you are carers.

tl;dr you aren't special, OP.

Here here. Where would you draw the line?
Theluggage15 · 23/03/2021 10:56

Yes the second home owner/ renter thing is just laughable and makes a mockery of the whole thing. You actually don’t even have to own a second home but can go to view potential properties. So just go on holiday and visit a couple of estate agents while there.

UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme · 23/03/2021 10:59

ArcheryAnnie you don't know anyone who's parents or adult children don't live abroad? You know this isn't about second cousins or great uncles. Why deliberately twist what others are staying just to twist the knife a bit?

BoomBoomsCousin · 23/03/2021 17:51

@oblada
Boomboomscousins - you didn't just said you thought the government shouldn't grant it, you said it was an outrage for people to want it.

No I didn’t.

Here’s what I wrote (in a response to a claim that their was a lot of smugness on the thread):
It’s not smugness. It’s outrage that people think others should be disadvantaged in order to allow people who emigrated to avoid the negative consequences of their choices while keeping the positive ones

That does not suggest it’s outrageous that people should want to do it, just that they shouldn’t being trying to convince us it’s a good idea to actually do it. (The second homes thing really is a fucking outrage, though).

ArcheryAnnie · 25/03/2021 01:55

@UntilYourNextHairBrainedScheme

ArcheryAnnie you don't know anyone who's parents or adult children don't live abroad? You know this isn't about second cousins or great uncles. Why deliberately twist what others are staying just to twist the knife a bit?
I look at my own family and various circles of friends and yes, I really struggle to think of anyone who doesn't have people abroad they are very close to, that they miss. (I'm an immigrant, btw.) And no, I'm not thinking of second cousins and great uncles.

Maybe that's not true of you, I don't know. But many, many, many people have family abroad - it's a natural consequence of our interconnected world. It would be nonsense to say to all of those, sure, the covid restrictions don't apply to you.

youdialwetile · 25/03/2021 03:17

I agree OP. Visiting family is not really a holiday. My parents (mid 70s) are alone in the UK and they are starting to lose hope of seeing my siblings or me ever again. Or any grandchildren.

On top of that DHs father died July 2020, he was not allowed to travel for the funeral, and the family are still waiting to hold the interment with DH can be there.

I feel like telling them to go ahead without us as this is not ending any time soon.

oblada · 25/03/2021 07:29

ArcheryAnnie - as you are an immigrant, if your social circle involves many immigrants then it's normal for you to know loads of people with close family abroad. It is really NOT representative of the general population. Immigrants are a minority and people with close family (children/parents) abroad are really a minority.
I'm an immigrant. My circle of friends/work colleagues/acquaintances doesn't include many (any) immigrant and none of my British friends have got close family abroad.
Ultimately there could be exception made for certain social situation, like the bubbles. Doesn't have to be a free for all scenario.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 25/03/2021 08:45

I know many natives who have no family abroad. It's quite normal.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 25/03/2021 08:46

Unless you count Wales 😂

ArcheryAnnie · 25/03/2021 16:36

@oblada

ArcheryAnnie - as you are an immigrant, if your social circle involves many immigrants then it's normal for you to know loads of people with close family abroad. It is really NOT representative of the general population. Immigrants are a minority and people with close family (children/parents) abroad are really a minority. I'm an immigrant. My circle of friends/work colleagues/acquaintances doesn't include many (any) immigrant and none of my British friends have got close family abroad. Ultimately there could be exception made for certain social situation, like the bubbles. Doesn't have to be a free for all scenario.
I've been in this country since I was a small child. I attended primary school and secondary school in Surrey, ffs. I am not in a bubble of people precisely like me.

...unless you consider London to be a giant bubble of people precisely like me, since so many of us are immigrants, or children of immigrants, or grandchildren, great-grandchildren or great-great-grandchildren of immigrants. Hell, the first house in London was built by an immigrant, 2000 years ago. And this isn't just a London thing, either. Even my sister, who was one of only two people Just Like Her living in her sizeable university town, has seen that town's demographics substantially change over the last 20 years.

I am struggling to imagine where you live.

oblada · 25/03/2021 17:06

ArcheryAnnie - you do know London has like the highest percentage of immigration in the whole country by a far stretch? If you're in London then yes I can understand you know a fair few people with relatives abroad. But London isn't the whole of the UK and on balance it is still a minority thing.
I'm in the NW. Where I live many of the people are born in the same town, work in the same town, marry in the same town and die in the same town. No relative abroad lol

ArcheryAnnie · 25/03/2021 17:18

London has 10 million plus people, and is the capital city. When discussing whether "people with family abroad" should be some kind of special category of people allowed to travel abroad, of course it should be considered.

And it's hardly like London is unique. just over 15% of people in England were born abroad, but that's only a fraction of the story. In 2014, over a quarter (27%) of all births in England and Wales were to mothers born outside the UK. I don't know how many children are being born into families with grandparent immigrants, but it's a lot.

oblada · 25/03/2021 18:17

ArcheryAnnie - this is going in circles!
The point is this - People with CLOSE family abroad are a minority in the UK. Maybe a bigger minority than another minority group but it remains a minority!
It is technically possible to make allowances for them. Again it doesn't have to be a free for all but could be restricted say to single parent household with young children waiting to go abroad to get support from their parents. It's really not that complicated.
Just like allowances are made for couples who share custody etc.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 25/03/2021 18:22

Like it's possible to make an allowance for people owning a property abroad...

oblada · 25/03/2021 18:29

ArcheryAnnie - in terms of numbers it's about 10millions immigrants/foreign born in the UK and about 5millions of brits living abroad. So 15millions. Not all of them will actually have CLOSE family they want to go see. So my point remains - statistically it's a minority.
And again it doesn't mean people shouldnt be asked to justify their travel.

My youngest child was in hospital for 3months at birth last summer. We were extremely lucky that my parents and after them my brother (French) were allowed to travel and spend time with us to support us and our 3 other children. I'm not sure how I would have coped otherwise. We have no family in the UK and really needed that support. So yes I definitely understand why immigrants may want their situation a bit more recognised.

oblada · 25/03/2021 18:29

@SchrodingersImmigrant

Like it's possible to make an allowance for people owning a property abroad...
Lol indeed!
Msmcc1212 · 25/03/2021 18:31

I haven’t read the whole thread so this has probably been said but lots of people have t seen their family regardless of whether they live in a different country or not.

We haven’t seen mine in over a year because they live too far away for a day trip and the rules haven’t allowed inside visits or overnight stays since last year.

It’s hard. It’s rubbish. But it is what it is.

PandoraP · 25/03/2021 18:34

Most of my friends and colleagues have close family (parents, siblings) abroad as I work in an environment where most are immigrants to the U.K. I think there are two Brits in my team of 20. I have always worked in those type of environments so most of my friends are not British. I have 3 close British friends only and the rest are all from “abroad”.

BoomBoomsCousin · 25/03/2021 20:27

" in terms of numbers it's about 10millions immigrants/foreign born in the UK and about 5millions of brits living abroad."..."So my point remains - statistically it's a minority."

That fact that it's technically a minority is in no way an indication that the numbers are small enough for an exception to be practical or low risk. 15 million people is nearly a quarter of the UK population.

oblada · 25/03/2021 20:39

Again... It wouldn't apply to everyone and wouldn't be a free for all.
Anyway, if I have to meet an estate agent to go 'rent' a house in France so that I can see my family then so be it, I'll meet an estate agent lol