To keep framing foreign travel as a holiday?

[stopgap]

I haven’t seen my parents in 14 months, as they’re in the UK and I’m in the US. I know it’s only semantics but I’m truly tired of UK politicians referring to foreign travel only in the context of a jolly. There must be thousands upon thousands of people in my position, desperate to see family, desperate for grandparents to see their grandchildren, and I resent the situation being presented from one perspective only.

YANBU. I saw mine last year. Glad I did, my father died. I'm going to see them again this year, too.

Same here. Haven't seen my parents since July 2018. They never met my youngest child who is already 15 months old. My Dad suffered a heart attack last year and I couldn't even go there. I'm not spending another year without seeing them, they both have lots of health issues and I would never forgive myself if something happens to them without even had met their youngest grandchild.

People with family abroad, who must visit them....

Well, my uncle emigrated to Canada in the 60s. To my knowledge he came back to the UK 3 times before he died about 30 years later. My grandparents never went out to visit him. Yes, I know, times were different and plane travel was more expensive then, and expectations are different now - but that's the way it was in those days. Family emigrated and you saw them rarely, if ever. No-one died from not being able to see their families.

I am hoping things will be better come summer and I am willing to jump through whatever hoops are necessary to see my parents - quarantine, testing, whatever it takes.

That's right, we no longer live in the 60s .

Go visit them. Learn not to give a shit about people who try to get off on shaming others. Fuck 'em.

I’m hearing Cilla Black in my head now, they moved to Australia and you haven’t seen each other for thirty years. Cheap air travel is quite a recent thing and very much taken for granted. It may not be cheap for much longer if they actually start taking climate change seriously.

@DuesToTheDirt it was also illegal to be homosexual, so with all due respect, that’s completely irrelevant to this conversation.

Flights are so cheap & frequent nowadays that seeing families is completely normal. PIL live in Australia and we see them once a year - that is our normality.

And no, no one ever died from not seeing family but when you regularly see them 3-4 times a year & they are then dying (like my relative’s mother), not being able to say goodbye is extraordinarily cruel.

We had overseas staff telling me I didn’t understand as their family is abroad... yep, my db is in Canada so I saw him summer 2019 and my nephew will be 2.5 years older when I next see him having previously seen them twice a year! Really hoping they can come for Christmas. My parents drove a 3 hour round trip to see us on our doorstep at Christmas from a distance as dd1 had to isolate due to positive cases in her year group. They were here 5 minutes dropping off gifts but better than nothing.

@DuesToTheDirt Well this is not the 1960s, I would have had never moved here to be with my husband if it meant never seeing my family again. They live a short flight away, I go there a few times a year so forgive me for feeling a bit concerned that if this goes on my DPs might not actually live long enough for me to ever see them again.

I have family abroad. I have not been able to see my family in the same country let alone abroad. I haven't been able to visit my rental home in the country where my family abroad live. YABU it is not essential travel and it is a holiday - you might not be sunning yourself in a beach but a holiday it is all the same

[quote SilverGlitterBaubles]@DuesToTheDirt Well this is not the 1960s, I would have had never moved here to be with my husband if it meant never seeing my family again. They live a short flight away, I go there a few times a year so forgive me for feeling a bit concerned that if this goes on my DPs might not actually live long enough for me to ever see them again. [/quote]
Exactly!
In the days of globalisation and international travel immigrating doesn't always mean losing contact or even reducing the contact with the family back 'home' and there is no reason for immigrants to expect or accept that. The current situation is completely unprecedented. It would the same as saying someone moving to Cardiff is clearly expecting not to be able to see his family in London much (and yes I know there have been restrictions in Wales and if people have not seen their family for a year because of it then I hope they are raising it with their MP). Nonsense.

I would have seen my parents at the same frequency if I'd moved to the other end of France. I just happen to settle in the UK at a time when it was part of the EU and therefore with very much unrestricted movement.

@oblada

You said 'it’s outrage that people think others should be disadvantaged in order to allow people who emigrated to avoid the negative consequences of their choices while keeping the positives' thus suggesting that 1) emigrating is always a choice/a free choice and 2) that the drawback from emigrating is distance from family and the rest is nice and rosy.

So to me yes that shows a lack of understanding around the reasons why people may have to emigrate and the struggles faced daily by emigrants in their country of residence. It's not as simple as saying they chose a nice and rosy live and tough if they can't see their parents for a bit.

Some emigrants are forced to emigrate. Some emigrants are not integrated at all (or not yet) in their country of residence. Some emigrants very much depend on contact with their country of origin for their mental health and generally for socialization etc.

I find it unbelievable that you cannot comprehend that immigrants want more flexibility around going back to their home country and/or visiting family. That for some that contact is absolutely essential. That you find that outrageous is quite odd.

French people in the UK have been complaining about the restrictions to their representatives and it led to the relaxation of certain rules. Which is great.
A French national living in London could not have foreseen not being able to go to France - it's quicker and easier to do London-Paris than Toulouse-Paris. They never agreed to give up their ability to see or support their family. This was totally unexpected and it's fair enough for people to ask for certain situations to be taken into account, as indeed some are...

I did not say that the pros and cons I listed were exhaustive. They are obviously not, they are just a few that come up again and again when people are asked why they moved/moved back/wouldn't move. I did not say that immigrants have a nice rosy life. Many, don't. But most have lives they judge are better than the lives they would have had if they had stayed in their home country.

I am not even saying they generally have it good and tough if they can't see their parents for a bit. I'm saying life is full of ups and downs and it isn't actually the government's responsibility to smooth all the ups and downs that result from individual's decisions, even when the consequences are unexpected or tragic. When the accommodation being sought would increase risk for everyone else there should need to be a public benefit to that accommodation, not just a benefit to a small group who are not, generally, already disadvantaged through membership of that group.

Emigrants who are forced to emigrate and are able to return to their home country to visit are very rare (nonexistent from the UK). A general rule allowing all immigrants to visit home countries and return to the UK would not be at all proportional, even if those few forced immigrants did have needs that lifted their case above others.

And of course I can comprehend wanting flexibility to go back to our home countries. I want it too. I am not saying people shouldn't want it. I'm saying governments shouldn't grant it because it increases the risk to the rest of their population and it is not reasonable to expect countries to absorb that cost for our benefit.

I agree with @BoomBoomsCousin. Imagine if Borris announced that foreign people can go and visit their loved ones abroad can you image the uproar? People would start saying they have different rights to XYZ yet we have lived here in UK all our lives (rightly so too).

To tell people "its your own fault that you moved" is kind of the same as telling poor people "its your own fault that you are on benefits". Life isn't black and white.

Boomboomscousins - you didn't just said you thought the government shouldn't grant it, you said it was an outrage for people to want it.

For a start our borders were never closed and can never be closed. I'm not sure truckers going up and down between France and England possibly transporting completely 'unnecessary' goods is worse than someone wanting to travel to see their family. Or that people going abroad for weddings or to sell a property is actually necessary (though I understand why the rules allow it).

We have rules, we have exceptions, everyone has a view as to how the rules should be devised and the exception. I personally think emigrants should be recognised more (indeed it is all about balance - a lack of proportionality in the assessment could otherwise be discriminatory).

It actually does happen that the government takes those elements into consideration. The French government does to a small extent.

I do have a huge amount of sympathy for any immigrant who has been unable to see their loved one for a year or more and I am happy to support their attempts are obtaining more recognition of their plight.

So the current new rules around holidays permits travel abroad for some purposes such as moving, selling or renting a property. That's a nice little loop hole right there for people like Stanley Johnson.

There will be se toughening of rules from monday as I understand. 🙄

Yes agreed. Also not seen close family for 14 mths.

I don’t want a holiday as much as I want to see loved ones.

The lack of empathy shown by some on this thread is staggering. I'm in the same boat as you OP. I imagine though that if people were allowed to go abroad to see family there would suddenly be a considerable amount of those who need to go and see their 'auntie' in Spain, etc. It would be abused by too many people. Hopefully it will only be a few more months before we can return to normality.

As for me - I don't have a better lifestyle for living here. I could have done just as well in France. I just ended up in the UK and stayed because of my husband.

It's all husband's fault😂 i came to learn the language and explore something new. Similar for him. We met when we were both preparing to go back bto our respective countries 😂 Never happened.

We are both still close to our countries though mine is closer and has more flights.
As I said. 5 hours door to door mine to my mum.

Well this is not the 1960s, I would have had never moved here to be with my husband if it meant never seeing my family again. They live a short flight away
Yop.

I also haven’t seen my family who live abroad since beginning of lockdown. My elderly parents have yet to get vaccinated so don’t think I will see them for ages.
I understand that I cannot travel to see them, but I get pissed by people who insist on swanning off on a holiday which will only prolong lockdown while so many of us are parted from our loved ones.

Those who think it’s our own fault for having moved abroad can fuck off.

@May17th

I agree with *@BoomBoomsCousin. Imagine if Borris* announced that foreign people can go and visit their loved ones abroad can you image the uproar? People would start saying they have different rights to XYZ yet we have lived here in UK all our lives (rightly so too).

Well, firstly. It would be "people can now visit families abroad" not just foreigners... Which means it would just simply be an addition to "people can travel to work, education, on compassionate grounds eg. funerals, weddings, visiting family". Doesn't matter whether you are British or foreigner.

@ichundich

The lack of empathy shown by some on this thread is staggering. I'm in the same boat as you OP. I imagine though that if people were allowed to go abroad to see family there would suddenly be a considerable amount of those who need to go and see their 'auntie' in Spain, etc. It would be abused by too many people. Hopefully it will only be a few more months before we can return to normality.

Empathy went out with Brexit I think

I wasn't going to return to this thread. But I now see foreign travel allowed for second home owners with repairs to do and those with childcare. No doubt this was intended to benefit Stanley Johnson but it also benefits me. My family members overseas have all been vaccinated and I am getting mine today. I will be going. And quarantining on both sides. This thread has helped me make up my mind. If Xmas mixing is allowed, am going to see my elderly mom and sis whom I havent for a year and two years respectively. Sod your emigrant hate.

@Frequentflier

I wasn't going to return to this thread. But I now see foreign travel allowed for second home owners with repairs to do and those with childcare. No doubt this was intended to benefit Stanley Johnson but it also benefits me. My family members overseas have all been vaccinated and I am getting mine today. I will be going. And quarantining on both sides. This thread has helped me make up my mind. If Xmas mixing is allowed, am going to see my elderly mom and sis whom I havent for a year and two years respectively. Sod your emigrant hate.

Definitely go!