To keep framing foreign travel as a holiday?

[stopgap]

I haven’t seen my parents in 14 months, as they’re in the UK and I’m in the US. I know it’s only semantics but I’m truly tired of UK politicians referring to foreign travel only in the context of a jolly. There must be thousands upon thousands of people in my position, desperate to see family, desperate for grandparents to see their grandchildren, and I resent the situation being presented from one perspective only.

I am not in any way saying I have an unrestricted right to travel abroad to see my family. That will depend on how things improve, or not. But the smugness on this thread- you made your choice so suck it up ner ner- is quite nasty.

But the smugness on this thread- you made your choice so suck it up ner ner- is quite nasty.

Quite. I have lovely elderly neighbours. Their daughter lives in NZ and they normally visit her 2-3 months every year. They were devastated not to go in 2020. I can't imagine how they'd feel never going again. It's not just a 'jolly', it's essential human contact!

I was looking att the possibility of visiting my husband's family if things open up in the summer. We have a toddler who they haven't seen since he was a newborn and my husband is the only one of his family to leave his country so its not just his parents, but all his siblings and cousins that he misses too. But even if it is allowed I was calculating the costs...test on arrival £50 per adult, test for departure £50 per adult then £210 per adult for the covid test kits on return to the UK. So before we even look at flight prices, airport parking and car rental we are already going to be £620 out of pocket. The cost is prohibitive for us, it's just too much! Maybe that's the idea though... The govt. Gets credit for opening up travel again but actually a lot of normal families won't be able to afford it.

@Frequentflier

I am not in any way saying I have an unrestricted right to travel abroad to see my family. That will depend on how things improve, or not. But the smugness on this thread- you made your choice so suck it up ner ner- is quite nasty.

It’s not smugness. It’s outrage that people think others should be disadvantaged in order to allow people who emigrated to avoid the negative consequences of their choices while keeping the positive ones.

To be honest, @BoomsBoomsCousin I felt exactly the same outrage when unrestricted Christmas mixing was allowed and Diwali/Eid mixing were not. A lot of us were disadvantaged by that, but I guess it is ok because certain kinds of families are allowed to mix, and others who have had the temerity to be "foreign" are not. Anyway, my last post on this thread. An eye opener in many ways that immigrants are expected to predict a pandemic that the bloody WHO could not.

Boomboomscousin - you clearly don't know or understand much about immigration.

I'm sorry, but YABVU. My sibling and surviving parent live in different countries and my SIL is from a 4th country. We haven't seen each other since Christmas 2019 and my sibling has suffered a mental breakdown during 2020. My Mum celebrated a significant birthday over zoom - we'd planned a party in the UK for her, but then COVID happened.

Much as I would love to see my family, I can't dress up visiting them as something other than a holiday. It's not essential travel, it's not for work and it is enjoyable. That, to me, is a holiday.

The vaccine roll outs in the countries where they live has been poor. My Mum is pretty irritated over tourists being allowed to come in and lie on the beaches whilst the resident population isn't allowed to leave their houses for extended periods.

Moving around in the midst of a pandemic is highly irresponsible and will only prolong the situation for everyone.

And there is a undertone of racism is this 'outrage' that immigrants would have the audacity to want to see their family.

Elfin79 - not seeing family for 18 months can have an incredibly detrimental impact on someone's mental health. Much more than skipping holidays abroad. Maybe you're not too affected and that's fine but others could be a lot more affected than you. It would depend on their own life in the country they live in, their support network, how long they've lived there, how integrated they are etc. Not to mention the impact on the children cut off from their uncle/aunt/grandparent etc.

My parents would do everything they can to come and see us, including using whatever emergency reason they could think of, if necessary. There is no way I'd spend 18 months without seeing them unless I had absolutely no option. Mostly for my children's sake. As it is I was lucky enough to see them several times over the last year and I don't regret it one bit.

@oblada

I agree with you OP and I'm tired of it too.

Those suggesting people chose to move abroad therefore it's their problem/fault - this has nasty racist undertones (and a complete lack of understanding of immigration).
Those saying they've not seen their own parents in a year despite living in the same country - that really was your choice as they were plenty of opportunity to see them, even socially distanced outside if need be.

It is perfectly possible for allowances to be made to allow people to travel to see their family or go back to their home country etc.

Racist? OMG!

As for, Those saying they've not seen their own parents in a year despite living in the same country - that really was your choice as they were plenty of opportunity to see them, even socially distanced outside if need be.
Some.areas in the UK have pretty much been under lockdown for a year, with no easing in the summer.

Equally, what about those who were vulnerable, cev, shielding, who couldn't travel safely as required public transport to see their loved members who were also Cev.

Your situations are not worthy of special allowances. You were obviously not concerned by the distance pre covid, otherwise would have remained more local.

@BoomBoomsCousin
It’s not smugness. It’s outrage that people think others should be disadvantaged in order to allow people who emigrated to avoid the negative consequences of their choices while keeping the positive ones.
Absolutely this.

It is a holiday... that your visiting your family though. We can’t just change the term now OP based on that we are in a pandemic.

Others are right lots of people have relatives all over the UK and they have not seen either.

*It’s still travel for leisure purposes though"

I disagree, duty visits to aged p's are not "leisure".

I agree with the OP that the UK government should make a distinction between holidays and visiting family.

If people in the UK haven't seen their parents for a year, that was choice, not what the law said (with the possible exception of if you or they live in Leicester).

Yes it's shit.
My family are in Africa. I would normally spend around a month each year with them. Then I got seriously ill and couldn't go, and just as I was well enough covid hit.
It's now been just over four years since I have seen them and I am unlikely to see them for at least another year I would think.

You were obviously not concerned by the distance pre covid, otherwise would have remained more local

Pre-covid people would have spent time and money travelling to spend time with their family, and now they cannot, I don't know where you get "not concerned" from. People are fucking cruel.

@poppycat10 what Country do you want to visit? Because my friend who’s partner is from Nigeria came last year to visit UK. Flights did go last year... so maybe if you didn’t go that was also down to you.

I say that as someone who’s Grandma doesn’t live in UK. It is unfair to change the term of holiday due to what? The pandemic

It is a holiday... that your visiting your family though

A holiday. Most of it spent ferrying various family members to government offices because they've saved it all up for us arriving with a hire car. Last time but one mostly involved taking my mother for her cancer treatment.
Yeah, five-star holiday that was.

@Songsofexperience

But the smugness on this thread- you made your choice so suck it up ner ner- is quite nasty.

Quite. I have lovely elderly neighbours. Their daughter lives in NZ and they normally visit her 2-3 months every year. They were devastated not to go in 2020. I can't imagine how they'd feel never going again. It's not just a 'jolly', it's essential human contact!

It’s sad that people can’t see their families but thanks to their swift decision to close their borders, NZ has had 26 deaths in a population of 5 million.

BusyLizzie - your last sentence confirms my first point that seemingly shocks you so much....

One other thought that I haven't seen mentioned yet....but just because you're in countries where this usually isn't a problem, you haven't had to really face it until now, doesn't mean it isn't a risk that inherently happens when people move abroad. Pre-Covid I know a family where a woman's son couldn't get a visa to the UK to come and visit her for years due to restrictions on visas from that country (apparently they were worried he would overstay and find a job even if on a tourist visa, not because of his personal record but because of his age, earnings and lots of incidents of this happening in the past from that country of other young men of the same demographic).

I don't want to discourage people moving to other countries, but it is a risk you take that either due to politics, personal finances, potential future wars (or pandemics in this case) that you may not get to see them for a long time....

Just read my comment back and realise it sounds heartless. I didn't intend that. I'm sorry you haven't been able to see your family....but unfrotuantely travelling abroad can often be disrupted by a myriad of things and it's not 'essential'. I hope you get to see each other again soon

I've seen my parents outside twice in the last year and they are only 100 miles away! Nobody is visiting parents in the U.K., hotels are closed - it's not like the USA

@oblada

Boomboomscousin - you clearly don't know or understand much about immigration.

A meaningless accusation when you don't back it up with any kind of statement about what it is about immigration you think I'm ignorant of.

I'm a first generation emigrant. I haven't seen family in over year as it's non-essential travel. My DH and I have had health scares in three of our four parents over the last year and it's very possible we may lose one before we can see them again. It's heartbreaking and I wish our visiting wouldn't increase risk for them or others. But it does.

It's always been a possibility that our choice to move here would mean that we would miss out on providing in-person support to our parents and that our parents would have more limited contact with us and their grandchildren. We have advantages from moving here - more money, more opportunity, better lifestyle for our children. Our parents have had some advantages in the past - more financial support, extended vacations here. There are pros and cons and we have to live with them all.

I also work with immigrants. Though most of those who have moved to where I now live who need the services of the nonprofits I work with are driven from their homes by forces that make the use of the word "privileged" somewhat grotesque, they nevertheless had greater than average resources compared to their peers who remained behind. They send money back to their families. Many probably wouldn't be able to visit them even if covid didn't make it untenable. Visits aren't really on their radar at the moment, they are more concerned that covid makes it harder for their family to join them here permanently.

What exactly is it that I don't know/understand that means others should suffer to allow people with relatives in other countries to visit internationally?

You said 'it’s outrage that people think others should be disadvantaged in order to allow people who emigrated to avoid the negative consequences of their choices while keeping the positives' thus suggesting that 1) emigrating is always a choice/a free choice and 2) that the drawback from emigrating is distance from family and the rest is nice and rosy.

So to me yes that shows a lack of understanding around the reasons why people may have to emigrate and the struggles faced daily by emigrants in their country of residence. It's not as simple as saying they chose a nice and rosy live and tough if they can't see their parents for a bit.

Some emigrants are forced to emigrate. Some emigrants are not integrated at all (or not yet) in their country of residence. Some emigrants very much depend on contact with their country of origin for their mental health and generally for socialization etc.

I find it unbelievable that you cannot comprehend that immigrants want more flexibility around going back to their home country and/or visiting family. That for some that contact is absolutely essential. That you find that outrageous is quite odd.

French people in the UK have been complaining about the restrictions to their representatives and it led to the relaxation of certain rules. Which is great.
A French national living in London could not have foreseen not being able to go to France - it's quicker and easier to do London-Paris than Toulouse-Paris. They never agreed to give up their ability to see or support their family. This was totally unexpected and it's fair enough for people to ask for certain situations to be taken into account, as indeed some are...

"I'm a first generation emigrant. I haven't seen family in over year as it's non-essential travel. My DH and I have had health scares in three of our four parents over the last year and it's very possible we may lose one before we can see them again. It's heartbreaking and I wish our visiting wouldn't increase risk for them or others. But it does."

It sounds rubbish and I am sorry for you on that point. Personally I'm very glad my parents have come here several times in the past year as we needed their support (personal reasons) more than ever.

As for me - I don't have a better lifestyle for living here. I could have done just as well in France. I just ended up in the UK and stayed because of my husband. I certainly didn't give up being close to my family for certain benefits the UK would give me. I went to a neighbouring country just like I could have moved to the other end of France.

it's not the same with my DH for instance who has moved from India and therefore he certainly gave up his ability to attend quickly to his family if need be - he certainly knows that as he moved away for that reason in part :) for him it's fine not to see his mum for a year or so. But we definitely rely on my parents and so do my children.

Again it comes to this - this situation is unprecedented and couldnt rly be foreseen. There are always exceptions to the rules, there have to be. What immigrants are asking is for their situation to be taken into account when considering those exceptions. It's not outrageous at all.