To keep framing foreign travel as a holiday?

[stopgap]

I haven’t seen my parents in 14 months, as they’re in the UK and I’m in the US. I know it’s only semantics but I’m truly tired of UK politicians referring to foreign travel only in the context of a jolly. There must be thousands upon thousands of people in my position, desperate to see family, desperate for grandparents to see their grandchildren, and I resent the situation being presented from one perspective only.

[quote changingnames786]@PandaFluff and how much of the market do you think those people make? Do you know how much it costs to put a plane in the sky? Do you think it would be enough to sustain an airline?[/quote]
No I don't think it's enough. I was trying to say if the government decide to allow foreign travel for limited numbers I think people with connections overseas should be given priority access over holiday makers with no connections.

@changingnames786 I understand what you are saying and agree. There is the attitude, you both on this thread and on MN in general, that visiting family is a more worthy reason for travel. In reality, I care more about finding out when I can travel to see my family than what the bloody announcer calls it. I don't need to have my purpose for travel specifically identified.

Plus, anyone in the U.K. who is following the rules hasn’t seen their parents either unless caring for them.

This isn’t true, is it. There have been many opportunities to see family in the last 14 months. It hasn’t been lockdown for the entire time.

I can usually get a train to London and be there in 2 and a half hours.

So no, I didn't expect to not be able to see my family for over a year.

And as I saw them summer 2020 I really didn't expect not to be able to see them summer 2021!

YANBU My biggest fear is possibly not seeing my parents ever again. They are not getting any younger and the thought that something may happen to one of them when I have not seen them keeps me awake at night.

I also don't get the idea that no one is actually travelling right now, they are. Lots of people travelling for 'work' or because they are entitled selfish gits to whom the rules don't apply. Please don't quote the quarantine requirements at me because we all know well that this is not being enforced. The whole thing is a joke.

I live abroad. Haven’t seen family for nearly 2 years now as were due to visit shortly after pandemic started.

I think visiting family is a jolly. It’s more connected to the ties you have but it’s not in anyway essential travel. It’s a luxury in life that some people who have moved abroad are fortunate enough to be able to afford.

In general, when it comes to emigrating from the U.K. it is normally the better off who have done so (as is the case in most countries). I don’t think there is a case for the government prioritising foreign travel for these people over the rest of the population because they used their advantage to choose something that most could not and have now had a small amount of disadvantage because of covid.

@PhatPhanny

Foreign travel also supports the local businesses in the country your travelling too, food in the mouths of peoples families, its just as important.

great logic - do the local health systems have the resources to support the covid you take with you? And if you get coronavirus while away, you'll come back, infect a pile of other people, AND expect NHS treatment yourself?

Totally agree. BA announced they would only be letting vaccinated people on their flights when the time comes. Dad in a country where vaccination roll out expected to complete no sooner than 2023 (not started yet). He's British and has been called in the UK but he can't get here. Currently no commercial flights in and out of country. Could try to get a ministerial exemption (not actually in politics), but would need to go via another country so would take 4 weeks plus with all the quarantine. He works in the aforementioned country so would be basically not working for 8 weeks.

@BoomBoomsCousin

I live abroad. Haven’t seen family for nearly 2 years now as were due to visit shortly after pandemic started.

I think visiting family is a jolly. It’s more connected to the ties you have but it’s not in anyway essential travel. It’s a luxury in life that some people who have moved abroad are fortunate enough to be able to afford.

In general, when it comes to emigrating from the U.K. it is normally the better off who have done so (as is the case in most countries). I don’t think there is a case for the government prioritising foreign travel for these people over the rest of the population because they used their advantage to choose something that most could not and have now had a small amount of disadvantage because of covid.

I think this may be the real undercurrent. I'd be interested to know the backgrounds/jobs of all the people on different sides of this.

People who move out of country, or even across the country in some cases, who are in a position to assume they will be always be able to travel regularly to see that family are generally in a position of some economic privilege.

People with less of that have to make a choice to move and know that travel is impossible or may become impossible, or stay close and give up the job or training opportunity. Both are legitimate.

No one thinks not seeing family is just a small thing, but there is a kind of insulation from the situation of a lot of people in the assumption that of course travel of that kind is just a given and this was completely unexpected.

I'm in the UK and my parents are in the US. I haven't seen them in a year and a half and I'd definitely consider it a holiday. It's truly not necessary that I see them, unless someone was really ill and then I would travel regardless as I'd need to provide care.

Who chose to move away? It their fault not politicians.

I chose to move away knowing I had 12 direct flights I could choose from each day. I was 1h and £20 away from home at any given point. People don’t take into account pandemics when they move abroad. Or didn’t, I think from now people will think twice about it.

It’s easy to say ‘but it’s not essential, it’s still a holiday’ when you’re most likely going to be allowed to see some family this summer. Up until now everyone has been in the same situation, but UK travel will happen in some form this year.

I live in Germany and there has always been an exemption of quarantine when coming back from visiting first degree relatives. You need some extra PCR tests but unless you come from one of the virus variants/extremely high incidence countries, you don’t have to quarantine after visiting your parents/children/siblings/partners. It’s harder to prove to the health authorities but this has allowed people to still see their families sometimes.

@SmokedDuck people who choose to move may be in a better position economically - but at a cost. I travel home to see my family once a year. If I was truly ‘economically privileged’ I could do this every other month without having to scrimp and save to afford my annual trip home. And as pp have mentioned if you’re from mainland Europe a trip home is £20 - you don’t need to be rolling in money. Considering everyone not on minimum wage privileged leads to a slippery slope.
People made the choice to move given circumstances which have now changed - it’s unfair to use supposed privilege as a stick to beat them over the head with. Just as people who chose to have many children knowing that they had secure jobs now find themselves destitute. It IS unprecedented and ridiculous to pretend otherwise.

I remember when flights to Ibiza costed less than a taxi to a club where I lived. 7 quid! 10 years or so ago.
My friend used to acore £1 tickets to Poland👀

Most expensive thing on going away is an accomodation. If you are staying with a family that saves fortune and visit can be done very cheaply.

Or you could pay £20 to someone going there by car and voilà. Cheap (but long) trip.

I agree OP, people who don't understand do not have their mother, father or children abroad. They would if they did - it's different and whoever tells me it's not, well it bloody is. Sending hugs x

[quote NotAPanda]@SmokedDuck people who choose to move may be in a better position economically - but at a cost. I travel home to see my family once a year. If I was truly ‘economically privileged’ I could do this every other month without having to scrimp and save to afford my annual trip home. And as pp have mentioned if you’re from mainland Europe a trip home is £20 - you don’t need to be rolling in money. Considering everyone not on minimum wage privileged leads to a slippery slope.
People made the choice to move given circumstances which have now changed - it’s unfair to use supposed privilege as a stick to beat them over the head with. Just as people who chose to have many children knowing that they had secure jobs now find themselves destitute. It IS unprecedented and ridiculous to pretend otherwise.[/quote]
The privilege that people who moved abroad had isn’t necessarily that they are suddenly lots richer than everyone in the U.K., it’s that they had choices that many do not and they acted on them.

To suggest because of those choices they should be given more privilege or have exceptions made that put others at more risk so that they are protected from the unfortunate consequences of their choices in the light of the pandemic isn’t justified.

I am one of those people lucky enough to have acted on such choices and now unfortunate enough to be unable to see my parents and siblings, so I do understand what the cost is. We are responsible for our choices and the consequences of them.

I know lots of people with family abroad and most will go away to see their family regardless. Just ignore the politicians and follow the quarantine rules etc

This is exactly it. There's no point wringing your hands about it- just go. Especially if you have citizenship/residency rights in both countries, there is sweet FA that can be done to stop you (well, unless you're trying to get to Australia).

Right, I'm really confused because plenty of my family and people I've seen on Instagram have been going abroad?

My father in law just arrived back from Afghanistan after a 1 month stay.

My friends family just flew to Pakistan

a few days ago? So surely if you want to go abroad, just go? Because I'm seeing people fly out regardless so it's not exactly restricted?

@PhatPhanny

Foreign travel also supports the local businesses in the country your travelling too, food in the mouths of peoples families, its just as important.

They are getting that support from locals who aren't going away on holiday abroad.

I've lived in a different country from my parents for 25 years, they emigrated as did most of the rest of my family. Going to see them is still a holiday, I have about 20 relatives there and 1 here, it's tough but it doesn't change that it's a holiday.

@edgeware

I completely agree. Me going to see my family is not a fucking holiday. “Holidays probably not likely this summer” that’s great but I am not going to be kept away from my family for another year.

Well you are if you're not allowed on a plane ..

It's so hard OP. I'm in the US, whole family in UK.

I've not seen my daughter since I went home in 2019 for my mum's funeral. I'd been going multiple times a year for several weeks at a time for a few years, Spending time with my mum but also daughter, siblings etc. Early 2020 I was just feeling like I could face going back, but it was not to be. Now I feel like I've abandoned my family, waiting to deal with all the post death stuff. The longer it waits to be sorted out, the worse it feels.

I'm not brave enough to get on a plane for 11 hours though. So wait I will.

Yes, I’m with you op. Dh is foreign. We live closer to his elderly dad than we do to the majority of Scotland. Who would have thought we’d be told we cannot go and see him and at times the borders were shut.

And going to see him is not a bloody holiday. He’s a nice person. But it’s a chore for both of us in his tiny and uncomfortable house in an area, which is totally non tourist with pretty much nothing to do for kids. So many obligations when we go. People are clueless.

But according to some people, he just shouldn’t have come here. Well, maybe he should go back there to live now and leave me, his disabled and chronically ill wife with our 12 yo and mortgage with no means to pay it.

But hey, we should have predicted all this. Including my illness, I suppose. Ffs.

@stopgap

I haven’t seen my parents in 14 months, as they’re in the UK and I’m in the US. I know it’s only semantics but I’m truly tired of UK politicians referring to foreign travel only in the context of a jolly. There must be thousands upon thousands of people in my position, desperate to see family, desperate for grandparents to see their grandchildren, and I resent the situation being presented from one perspective only.

Visiting your family is still a jolly, holiday, whatever.

You've made the choice to live abroad and sadly this is the current consequences of that decision.
It's even worse for families that are in the same nation and cannot visit. Or families who usually are so much closer physically and yanked apart. In many ways, you should be used to that distance.
It is what it is.

I agree with you OP and I'm tired of it too.

Those suggesting people chose to move abroad therefore it's their problem/fault - this has nasty racist undertones (and a complete lack of understanding of immigration).
Those saying they've not seen their own parents in a year despite living in the same country - that really was your choice as they were plenty of opportunity to see them, even socially distanced outside if need be.

It is perfectly possible for allowances to be made to allow people to travel to see their family or go back to their home country etc.

BusyLizzie - used to that distance? Are you having a laugh? My parents normally come 4-5 times a year for a week each time (and a few week-end interspersed) or so and we see them at Christmas and over the summer for several weeks and usually on one or more holidays that we can together. I probably see them more than someone having their parents every Sunday.

Having said then I wouldn't have put up with not seeing them for a year and they have managed to come several times. That hasn't actually been restricted much at all (unless no flights which was the situation for a few months at the start but from August it was all fine). But I don't know what the situation is for someone wanting to leave the UK or come from US to the UK etc.