To think we should forgive people for mistakes they made when they were teenagers

[satishoused]

The editor of teen vogue has been sacked for racist and homophobic tweets she wrote when she was a teenager.

I'm not condoning racism and homophobia and I'm NOT a fan of Teen Vogue BUT it does worry me that kids now grow up in a world where everything they do and say is documented on social media and is around forever. They can't make mistakes.

More and more I think we need to keep kids off social media. It is toxic and the culture it has created is brutal and unforgiving.

@MissTrip82

Wow people set a low bar.

I don’t think that expecting people not to be racist scumbags when they’re of uni age is the same as expecting them to be fully formed and enlightened.

Are there really people here who made racist remarks like that when they were at uni? I assume so, if it’s apparently so understandable.

When did this woman’s revelation occur? Shortly before she was pushed out?

The toxic stuff here is the racism.

The original question was "should people be forgiven for mistakes they make when they are teenagers". Making a broader point, yes I do think that people should be forgiven for doing wrong things in between the ages of 13 and 19 when most of us are not at our best, by any stretch of the imagination.

I don't think we do our teens any favours with the attitude that they can never do anything embarrassing or make a mistake without it haunting them for the rest of their days. And with that in mind, the dangers of posting online, even behind privacy settings, need to be etched into their minds.

In her case, what she said was not only extremely offensive and unacceptable, it also shows her stupidity for not having control over her social media. Had she the sense to be more professional, then she would not have brought the magazine into disrepute and lost her job.

OP, I agree, and think it will only get worse in future when 'private' chats on WhatsApp etc start resurfacing for future public figures people in positions of responsibility.

A lot of social media accounts, including WhatsApp, now have a "delete after 7 days" feature but you have to explicitly turn it on. I've tried to encourage my kids to do that but It think it has fallen on deaf ears so far.

@AlohaMolly

I grew up with an emotionally abusive, quite racist father (and mother, really) who was homophobic and sexist to boot. Where I grew up was a big BNP stronghold. I vividly remember being very right wing and believing in the death penalty as a teen. I wasn’t racist but I could very well have been homophobic if confronted with it.

I’m 33 now and would be considered a raging lefty by many on here, and certainly by my family.

Opinions and attitudes change, especially when teens leave home and are exposed to a variety of people and cultures. It definitely depends on the content of the tweet and the reaction to it now from the tweeter.

Absolutely this.

I don't see them as stupid, edgy, teenage jokes.

There isn't really anything funny about that many vile, repetitive, homophobic and anti Asian comments written in 2011 by a 17 year old.

Cancel culture needs to stop

Yes. Teenagers take risks and make mistakes

That’s interesting and disturbing Branleuse.

I had this debate with friends who are happy with stripping citizenship forever for a would- be terrorist teen and even compared her to the 2 young James Bulger murderers. Apparently there's no difference between them and adults .

I agree OP. I am a different person to the person I was when I was 17. I've no idea how old this person is that you are talking about in your post, but I'm 31 now and so when I was 17 it wasn't THAT long ago but the world has changed so much and views have changed so much that yes, I am definitely different to the person I was as a teenager.

Reminds me of tweets made by a soap actress that got her sacked a couple of years ago. What she tweeted was completely unacceptable, but it seems wrong to me to cancel someone's livelihood which might prevent them from working again because of comments made in adolescence. People should be allowed to make mistakes and learn from them.

@Doingtheboxerbeat

I had this debate with friends who are happy with stripping citizenship forever for a would- be terrorist teen and even compared her to the 2 young James Bulger murderers. Apparently there's no difference between them and adults .

Slight difference in severity of 'crime' in this case, don't you think? Not comparable.

What jobs are suitable for people who hold these types of views?

That editor was in post when Teen Vogue ran an article promoting anal sex to girls. It was an awful, awful article.

That’s more of a concern to me.

Gosh I made some awful choices as a teen. None of them involved racism though.

I agree. I wasn't a very nice person as a teen - not racist or homophobic - but I'm still grateful that FB wasn't around then.

I certainly think age of criminal responsibility should be raised. I definitely think there should be a differentiation between adult crime and child crime.
I certainly think we should have one age of majority that covers all adult rights and responsibilities.

Not sure how that fits with people like Venables and Thompson or Shamima Begum. I have a view but it wouldn’t be a vote winner.

I think it depends on what it was that was tweeted. There was a time when 'gay' was used as a casual insult amongst some kids who were younger than me. I don't think they thought about what it actually meant or meant it as a homophobic slur, even though it is, just as when I was a teen, someone being 'lame' wasn't meant as a slur against disabled people really, but is pretty horrible when you think about it. I'm struggling to come up with a racist equivalent, because I think they're all much more obvious, and loaded, however kids I knew talked about going to the 'paki' shop (which I always hated and never used) but didn't mean it to be offensive. It sounds so stupid now, because those, terms are offensive, but when you're surrounded by them, they are normalised and people don't actually stop to think about what they mean or the deeper imications. Context and intention

are everything.

Surely depends on the context?
Tweets is one thing, the scumbags that killed James Bulger for example - should we forgive them because they were teens?
I personally do not.

We all made shitty choices as teenagers, but racism isn't a mistake. Most people manage to be ill-advised, wilful teens without actually being racists.

Tweets is one thing, the scumbags that killed James Bulger for example - should we forgive them because they were teens?

What them two did will always be unforgivable. And really nowhere near the same thing as a tweet someone made at 17. People’s views and attitudes can change as they grow. But murderers will always be murderers, even if they did it when they were 10.

Some sort of statute of limitations for the effects on a teen's future life is reasonable, with perspective taken about what the teen has done, how old they were and how old they are now. If they're a teen but did something this year, then yes they should rightly face consequences. That sense of perspective suggests that just words on social media a decade ago shouldn't be affecting a young adult's life now; that's as long as some people get for murder and then we look to see if they're rehabilitated.

It's very hard in this situation, because an editor carries the weight of the magazine's "look". A different solution could have been found with apologies, explanations about impact on others and herself etc - but Vogue is about fashion rather than handling reality, it's clear that cancel culture is more fashionable than learning and forgiving.

very hard in this situation, because an editor carries the weight of the magazine's "look". A different solution could have been found with apologies, explanations about impact on others and herself etc - but Vogue is about fashion rather than handling reality, it's clear that cancel culture is more fashionable than learning and forgiving

It’s Teen Vogue, it’s the wokest of woke so it’s not good for their branding.

Teen Vogue is a terrible publication though, but it’s probably the right decision for who they are. Plus, a lot of advertisers were going to pull ads if she didn’t leave and Condé Nast already loses money year after year ....

@iloveeverykindofcat

We all made shitty choices as teenagers, but racism isn't a mistake. Most people manage to be ill-advised, wilful teens without actually being racists.

So a few statements as a teen, based in her own background where those type of statements might have been common, and that's it. Forever. Never to be forgiven. Never allowed to change. In another 70 years, she should still be marked out as a racist for those tweets.

Do you think the same about everything people do wrong? Would you ever allow forgiveness for a child who shoplifters sweets or are they to be branded as a thief even in old age? How about teens who got in a few fights, call them violent forever? What if someone shouts at their child once, should they be called an emotionally abusive parent forever? What's the impact for these people of condemning them? Are they ever to work, or have relationships? How can they if their actions can't be forgiven?

A search for perfection does nobody any good; if someone makes racist comments then they need to be better educated. It's much nicer to have a society where people learn what comments hurt others and improve, than one where we turn people into pariahs.

@Well1000

It depends. The editor being sacked is the correct choice. Why would anyone support a magazine knowing the editor held those views. People usually 'change' or supposedly seem to when they are called out on it.

This is difficult. I agree with OP. We all make mistakes. Maya Jama said some bad things but I was horrified when I read them.

Do I think do I think she is racist? No I don’t believe she is.

We were just lucky that the things we said and did aren't recorded forever on twitter!

This

Yes I do think people should be forgiven for teenage errors. Most say or do daft things that now embarrass them to remember, I know I did. Everyone should be able to draw a line under past mistakes.