To think we should forgive people for mistakes they made when they were teenagers

[satishoused]

The editor of teen vogue has been sacked for racist and homophobic tweets she wrote when she was a teenager.

I'm not condoning racism and homophobia and I'm NOT a fan of Teen Vogue BUT it does worry me that kids now grow up in a world where everything they do and say is documented on social media and is around forever. They can't make mistakes.

More and more I think we need to keep kids off social media. It is toxic and the culture it has created is brutal and unforgiving.

Yes we should forgive statements people made as teenagers. But she was being criticised for anti Asian remarks in the week of the worst ever racist attack against Asian-Americans so not surprising that her position in a public facing role wasn't sustainable. Forgiving actions of a teenager doesn't unfortunately mean everyone gets a do-over, there can still be consequences decades later

She was a child at the time. If her attitude now is completely different then she definitely shouldn't be held accountable for views she held as a child. It's terrible to think she should when she may have been brought up in a very racist household and been heavily influenced. If she hasn't changed her views though then she should have lost her job.

I feel the same about Shamima Begum, she was a child when she left and she should have been brought back if at all possible as a child. However as an adult she has held on to those same views so now I don't think she should be brought back.

People say Shamima was groomed as a child and shouldn't be judged even on her attitude now as it's not her fault, she shouldn't be expected to be able to just let go of those views without help. Where as they'll say this editor should be judged on views she had as a child despite the fact she may also have been groomed into them by friends or parents and may hold completely different views now.

I think if someone genuinely changes
Regrets their mistake,
they made as a teenager,then only then should be forgiven,.
Obviously this isn't mimising what they said as a teenager .

She is black but still had views that white supremacists share, she was indoctrinated by a race superiority/inferiority meaning scheme. She thought it OK to disparage and demean Asian people. That is not OK and it should have consequences. I wish someone had cancelled Hitler before he killed 6 million people. There do need to be consequences for encitement to hatred, which her tweets fall under. The Nazis spent 10 years dehumanising Jews in a pr campaigns before they killed the first person.

To a certain extent, yes. But those tweets are vile, and she was in a position of power with the potential to influence young minds. Her position was untenable.

If she hasn't changed her views though she should have lost her job

I don't agree with this. People should be entitled to their own views and beliefs, however abhorrent to someone else, so long as they keep them to themselves.

I really don't like this expectation that peoples thoughts and beliefs can now be policed and must toe the party line or be cancelled.

I think each case should be looked at individually. I’m my youth everybody used ‘gay’ as a pseudonym for rubbish. I liked the mighty boosh and other comedy that hasn’t aged well. I’m glad that nothing is left of my youth other than a few instant camera photos. I don’t know the details of what she said but if she is truly repentant people can change. Especially if she was just repeating things her family had encouraged her to think.

@ElizaLaLa

If she hasn't changed her views though she should have lost her job

I don't agree with this. People should be entitled to their own views and beliefs, however abhorrent to someone else, so long as they keep them to themselves.

I really don't like this expectation that peoples thoughts and beliefs can now be policed and must toe the party line or be cancelled.

It’s Teen Vogue tho, it’s super woke so it would be a bad look for them ...

@FrankButchersDickieBow please tell me this is a complete over exaggeration

@BananaHammock23

Totally agree! I remember saying some homophobic things when I was 18/19 - I came out about 5 years later! When we're young we have so much internalised hatred and it comes out in horrible ways.

It sounds like she was 18/19 too when she said that.

I'm sorry but at 19 you're a young adult pretty much and the excuse of being young doesn't really count. Which is also why the law treats you different than if you're under 18.

She deserved to get sacked.

I think people can learn and grow and change be their views, and teenagers can be really stupid. I think just an apology would have done?

@Seatime

She is black but still had views that white supremacists share, she was indoctrinated by a race superiority/inferiority meaning scheme. She thought it OK to disparage and demean Asian people. That is not OK and it should have consequences. I wish someone had cancelled Hitler before he killed 6 million people. There do need to be consequences for encitement to hatred, which her tweets fall under. The Nazis spent 10 years dehumanising Jews in a pr campaigns before they killed the first person.

It’s racism full stop. Not white supremacy. There’s a current problem in America of elderly Asian Americans being targeted by black men. There’s always been an undercurrent of mistrust between these communities especially on the West coast (they’d be the only ones opening groceries in rough neighbourhoods)

Although I don’t think it’s due to racism per say, they are just considered easy targets.

@FrankButchersDickieBow I agree

I think it's important for people to see that something being a mistake or accident doesn't mean you don't have consequences and even years down the line you can be held responsible for something you did. Maybe people would think before doing or saying offensive things if they knew there would be consequences for themselves

@ElizaLaLa

If she hasn't changed her views though she should have lost her job

I don't agree with this. People should be entitled to their own views and beliefs, however abhorrent to someone else, so long as they keep them to themselves.

I really don't like this expectation that peoples thoughts and beliefs can now be policed and must toe the party line or be cancelled.

No one's forced her to change her beliefs. But if you hold disgusting beliefs then people won't want to be associated with you. I don't think racist people can cry discrimination when they lose opportunities because of their racism.

I really don't like this expectation that peoples thoughts and beliefs can now be policed and must toe the party line or be cancelled.

So youd see no issue in someone that believed in conversion therapy became part of an organisation to support LGBTQ+ people?

Youd think nothing of a KKK grand wizard editing a magazine that tried to promote the equality of POC in society?

@FrankbutchersDickieBow - what??

I was shocked when I saw her comments. When I read about the trouble at Vogue I expected one ill considered remark. What I saw was a consistent attitude. When you have social media you leave a permanent footprint that can be traced years later.

see while those comments arent great, they seem like shes making stupid teenage edgy jokes. Losing a job for what? A joke. A microaggression?

What is the end result of this and what happens when all of us become pure of thought and never laugh at an offensive joke because of the huge public ostracisation.

Im trying to think of something I studied in social sciences a few years ago about how societies are inevitably controlled by some psychological panopticon. Some quite innocuous things are just not allowed to be discussed, but we are allowed quite robust debate within a very narrow range of subjects at any one time.

Surely people should be able to have their own thoughts as long as they behave within the law?

There are plenty of teenagers who will never make offensive statements on social media, why don’t we save the prestigious, responsible, influential career opportunities for them, eh?

’Im trying to think of something I studied in social sciences a few years ago about how societies are inevitably controlled by some psychological panopticon.’

That just whooshed over my head

I think that people are allowed to have their own thoughts and opinions as long as they behave within the law but if they make those thoughts and opinions public on social media, people and organisations might not want to be linked to them. It’s easy to whip up publicity and pressure a company through the same social media. Given the discussions about sex and gender on the Feminism sections on here and how Flora removed advertising from MN because it allows those discussions it’s easy to see how complaints can be used to shut down something considered un ‘pc’. At the same time social media as a whole is full of violent misogyny and racism.

Wow people set a low bar.

I don’t think that expecting people not to be racist scumbags when they’re of uni age is the same as expecting them to be fully formed and enlightened.

Are there really people here who made racist remarks like that when they were at uni? I assume so, if it’s apparently so understandable.

When did this woman’s revelation occur? Shortly before she was pushed out?

The toxic stuff here is the racism.

Nah she deserved it. If you are not racist, then such jokes will never enter your brain, let alone having the audacity to be so public about it. You don't make these types of comments unless you hold in part some of these beliefs.

@Nightbear

’Im trying to think of something I studied in social sciences a few years ago about how societies are inevitably controlled by some psychological panopticon.’

That just whooshed over my head

I think that people are allowed to have their own thoughts and opinions as long as they behave within the law but if they make those thoughts and opinions public on social media, people and organisations might not want to be linked to them. It’s easy to whip up publicity and pressure a company through the same social media. Given the discussions about sex and gender on the Feminism sections on here and how Flora removed advertising from MN because it allows those discussions it’s easy to see how complaints can be used to shut down something considered un ‘pc’. At the same time social media as a whole is full of violent misogyny and racism.

fs.blog/2014/07/the-panopticon-effect/