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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To feel uneasy about how quiet everyone is about this happening?

270 replies

Maxnon · 19/03/2021 10:56

Here are a few articles about a new bill going through, but really there isn't enough being spoken about it in the media.

Politics.co.uk: Anti-protest bill: Freedom dies in silence "The truly frightening thing was that they didn’t even argue for it. Over two days of debate and dozens of speeches, not one government minister actually defended the anti-protest powers in the new policing bill. Only one MP did."

The Economist: An illiberal bill to suppress protest in Britain

Guardian: 'Bill that curtails ability to protest in England and Wales passes second reading' "The DUP MP Gavin Robinson said: “The loose and lazy way this legislation is drafted would make a dictator blush. Protests will be noisy, protests will disrupt and no matter how offensive we may find the issue at their heart, the right to protest should be protected.”

Opinion: The Right to Protest is important in any credible democracy. Whilst I appreciate the current covid restrictions makes protest harder, in general, this should only be temporary until the pandemic slows down and we are back to some normality. A bill making potentially permanent changes to the Right to Protest makes me feel uneasy. Is that unreasonable?

OP posts:
LunaHeather · 19/03/2021 22:49

[quote Maxnon]@LunaHeather

And you're silenced for questioning the agenda with name-calling and accusations of being a crazy conspiracy theorist?

I understand Flowers

You can only do your best and use whatever self-preservation strategies help you and your family. If people lose their rights, freedom and democracy due to their own apathy, then that's on them not you. They can go to hell.[/quote]
Yes. Friends and family thought I'd lost it. Except the one who stopped me topping myself. I only tell the truth about my feelings on here now.

The lockdown sceptics thread on the Coronavirus board is poisonous.

I will be telling people "I told you so" and they can't come crying to me because I don't have an ounce of sympathy left. But I'll be a victim of the authoritarian state too.

LunaHeather · 19/03/2021 22:52

Oh, and if it's all right to link to my own thread, look at the replies on this one about Charles Walker

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4171431-Charles-Walker

I'm supposed to be reducing my MN time for sanity...but I find it hard to concentrate on anything else.

Maxnon · 19/03/2021 23:00

@LunaHeather

Oh, and if it's all right to link to my own thread, look at the replies on this one about Charles Walker

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4171431-Charles-Walker

I'm supposed to be reducing my MN time for sanity...but I find it hard to concentrate on anything else.

Sounds like being a Cassandra.

"The Cassandra metaphor (variously labeled the Cassandra 'syndrome', 'complex', 'phenomenon', 'predicament', 'dilemma' or 'curse') occurs when valid warnings or concerns are dismissed or disbelieved." Why Warnings Go Unheeded

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MercyBooth · 19/03/2021 23:02

Linking this now filled thread because of the Hillsborough tactics used on it.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4191873-To-be-angry-at-the-frenzy-caused-by-others-last-night

FortunesFave · 20/03/2021 00:16

So is there a protest organised about the new protest laws?

PerkingFaintly · 20/03/2021 10:27

The Free Speech brigade have been v quiet on this.

Yes, where's that supposed champion of free speech, Piers Morgan?

Last seen posting Churchill memes, holding himself up as a hero and being lauded on various threads here for bravely, er, having a pop at a woman he's obsessed with.

I'm sure he'll be all over this attack on the right to protest.

Won't he?

Donotfeedthebears · 20/03/2021 11:19

I see how Gilead could happen here now. Many Mumsnetters with their obsession with “da roolz” would be cheering it on.

I would happily protest but at 36 weeks pregnant I have no doubt that some police officer would happily beat me until my baby died.

PersimmonTree · 20/03/2021 11:20

in the meantime pls scroll down and sign the petition if you haven't already

dividedwefall · 20/03/2021 11:41

@PerkingFaintly

The Free Speech brigade have been v quiet on this.

Yes, where's that supposed champion of free speech, Piers Morgan?

Last seen posting Churchill memes, holding himself up as a hero and being lauded on various threads here for bravely, er, having a pop at a woman he's obsessed with.

I'm sure he'll be all over this attack on the right to protest.

Won't he?

The same Piers Morgan that berated everyone for bending the silly rules and killing people with their stupidity? The same millionaire Piers Morgan that was shortly afterwards photographed sunning himself in Barbados whilst the rest of us were scared to go on holiday in case we were forced back by constantly shifting rules.

I don't think he is a free speecher at all. He also has a nice authoritarian streak when it suits his pocket.

dividedwefall · 20/03/2021 11:44

Can I also please ask people to sign and share this petition to oppose the rollout of vaccine passports too petition.parliament.uk/petitions/569957

Whatever your view on vaccination at the current time, the implications of this electronic immunity passport system will affect everyone in the future. The government has lied and gaslighted about these passports but seems to be planning on rolling them out regardless under the same emergency powers they've given themselves to crush protests.

LunaHeather · 20/03/2021 11:45

@FortunesFave

So is there a protest organised about the new protest laws?
Is there anything today? Bit confused.
Spudina · 20/03/2021 11:50

YANBU. When I think if all the good that has been done by civil disobedience over the years and all the things that never would have changed without protest from the suffragettes to apartheid, I shudder.

MmeLaraque · 20/03/2021 12:43

@MercyBooth

Oh and those who wax lyrical about long Covid but are dismissive when people with certain illnesses and disabilities cant wear masks.......you might think long Covid is the only long term post viral syndrome that counts NOW. But that is while the Government is happy to use you yes USE YOU to scare and emotionally blackmail others. The real litmus test will come when you have to apply for disability benefits. And when you are told NO you will want help and support from the very people you denigrated for not being able to wear masks
This is interesting. That this government lie through their teeth is not in question. Neither is the fact that we're living through a global pandemic.

Those who would suggest that the pandemic is a conspiracy/global control experiment need to give their heads a wobble. A global control experiment would mean having to get every single professional and every single family whose loved one has died on board with said conspiracy.

The UK government's shitty behaviour has been long since warned about. Before the Brexit vote, those in receipt of welfare support (and those supporting them in their applications) warned that if Brexit went ahead, the Tories would strip human rights in the same way they've cut the funding to so many services. The Tories had already spent years implementing policies that lead to people starving to death, and generally struggling.

That, whilst simultaneously persuading everyone else that all those people in receipt of welfare are somehow undeserving of sympathy and support, and should get off their collective lazy arses and support themselves. People were persuaded that their problems were down to foreigners and other minority groups, and the UK govt used the UK press to persuade millions that the weak and vulnerable were/are, in fact, workshy layabouts, scrounging off everyone else.

This government continues to do that. They will continue to do that. That the UK govt would decimate Human Rights was some thing they were telling everyone loud and clear years ago. When that was pointed out, it was dismissed as fear-mongering.

Yet here we are. Those of you who voted Tory: well done. You were told this would happen, and you ignored the warnings.

PPs who noted they're tried to raise their children in a good/positive relationship with the police. Good luck with that. In my experience, the police are utterly useless. Victim-blaming, ignorant and belligerent. I have utterly no confidence in them at all. Except in the fact that if they're involved in something, they'll no doubt make it worse.

MmeLaraque · 20/03/2021 13:01

@Donotfeedthebears

I see how Gilead could happen here now. Many Mumsnetters with their obsession with “da roolz” would be cheering it on.

I would happily protest but at 36 weeks pregnant I have no doubt that some police officer would happily beat me until my baby died.

I see how Gilead could happen here now. Many Mumsnetters with their obsession with “da roolz” would be cheering it on.

Interesting perspective. You conflate a pandemic with a fictional dystopia. I very much doubt anyone here would cheer on the creation of a Gilead. I've read that book by the way. Back when it was first published, and again a few times since. Attwood's other work makes for interesting reading, too.

I would happily protest but at 36 weeks pregnant I have no doubt that some police officer would happily beat me until my baby died. Sadly, I wouldn't discount that, either.

Maxnon · 20/03/2021 13:03

@MmeLaraque

Interesting post.

A friend of mine is a pilot who up until the lockdown held right wing and conservative views about "poor people". How they need to "get a job" and were "lazy" etc. The idea that poor people bring poverty on themselves.

Suddenly, since lockdown, he is much poorer as he had to take a pay cut. His house purchase fell through too. Not easy times.

There was an article about it by Polly Toynbee The middle class are about to discover the cruelty of Britain's benefits system

There is something about what's happening that has made some people Check their Privilege. It's healthy for creating greater empathy.

Sure, the government has gone ultra-right-wing and practice a sort of social darwinism. However, I can't help but feel that there will be balance brought through whether they like it or not.

OP posts:
Dustyboots · 20/03/2021 13:13

I agree OP. Balance is being brought to us, whether we or our government like it/invite it or not.

sagaLoren · 20/03/2021 13:23

You conflate a pandemic with a fictional dystopia. I very much doubt anyone here would cheer on the creation of a Gilead.

I think the point is that a fictional dystopia always starts with a crisis. In the Handmaid's Tale the crisis is environmental pollution leading to mass infertility. The crisis we are facing right now is infectious disease. When people argue for removing basic rights (e.g. the right to protest) on the basis of "this is an emergency" they forget that "the emergency" is core to every single dystopian fiction (and reality) in history.

That's why "this is a pandemic" doesn't win the argument - we have and will always face crises and emergencies. We can't just throw our rights out of the window every time we're faced with a threat. We have to find a sensible balance.

dividedwefall · 20/03/2021 13:29

@MmeLaraque you are not wrong at all to be honest. I have to say it was unexpected. I didn't vote Tory, nor Labour. I find them both reprehensible. But I wouldn't have pegged Boris as the authoritarian technocrat he has since transpired to be. Nor would I have believed so many sensible minds in the Tory party would vote for and go along with the madness.

That there is a new pandemic disease there is no doubt. That it is part of a global conspiracy - well I am not convinced it is not and doubt I will be until the smoke clears. It is real, but whether it was unleashed to get to where we are now or has been hijacked for the same purpose I do not know.

All I do know is that aside from the early days when there was panic and confusion, the theft of our way of life with no apparent hope of return as yet seems almost too clever to have happened by mishap and accidence.

dividedwefall · 20/03/2021 13:30

@sagaLoren

You conflate a pandemic with a fictional dystopia. I very much doubt anyone here would cheer on the creation of a Gilead.

I think the point is that a fictional dystopia always starts with a crisis. In the Handmaid's Tale the crisis is environmental pollution leading to mass infertility. The crisis we are facing right now is infectious disease. When people argue for removing basic rights (e.g. the right to protest) on the basis of "this is an emergency" they forget that "the emergency" is core to every single dystopian fiction (and reality) in history.

That's why "this is a pandemic" doesn't win the argument - we have and will always face crises and emergencies. We can't just throw our rights out of the window every time we're faced with a threat. We have to find a sensible balance.

Exactly. 100% of the time, as history relentlessly shows us.
Maxnon · 20/03/2021 13:53

[quote dividedwefall]@MmeLaraque you are not wrong at all to be honest. I have to say it was unexpected. I didn't vote Tory, nor Labour. I find them both reprehensible. But I wouldn't have pegged Boris as the authoritarian technocrat he has since transpired to be. Nor would I have believed so many sensible minds in the Tory party would vote for and go along with the madness.

That there is a new pandemic disease there is no doubt. That it is part of a global conspiracy - well I am not convinced it is not and doubt I will be until the smoke clears. It is real, but whether it was unleashed to get to where we are now or has been hijacked for the same purpose I do not know.

All I do know is that aside from the early days when there was panic and confusion, the theft of our way of life with no apparent hope of return as yet seems almost too clever to have happened by mishap and accidence.[/quote]
There was another thread and many articles discussing how the pandemic is also along biblical lines. It's the kind of discussion that gets shut down as "complete rubbish", but maybe needs to be heard and given consideration even if it turns out to be "complete rubbish". To send a message to the whole world God(s) traditionally works through forces of nature, sending plagues etc. Same reason you can't get insurance for Acts of God. Of course, no one in high office is going to suggest the possibility that God might be behind the scenes but enough funny memes have circulated to raise the question.

"But I wouldn't have pegged Boris as the authoritarian technocrat he has since transpired to be."

I think it comes from fear. Boris is a good time prime minister. This crisis was not part of the term in in power that he wanted, but he has it anyway. It seems Boris just feels he needs to do what he can to keep a grip on power and not lose control. If that means becoming an authoritarian technocrat, then so be it; that's his way of surviving.

But still. Boris is under oath. There is a chance God is involved. And, in fairness, the Conservative party, government, Wueen, you name it, all swear oaths to "Almighty God". Or do they swear oaths as some sort of joke?

OP posts:
Maxnon · 20/03/2021 13:53

*Queen

OP posts:
Suzi888 · 20/03/2021 13:55

@Bearnecessity

Yanbu.....all slipping through quietly....1984 and Aldous Huxley's Brave New World on the horizon. You will have to show a vaccine passport to clear your throat soon...
Agree. “Your vaccine is your way out”

But it’s not is it. Confused

MmeLaraque · 20/03/2021 14:25

Maxnon. "To send a message to the whole world God(s) traditionally works through forces of nature, sending plagues etc. Same reason you can't get insurance for Acts of God. Of course, no one in high office is going to suggest the possibility that God might be behind the scenes but enough funny memes have circulated to raise the question."

I have difficulty taking anyone seriously when they cite gods of any sort in serious context.

Sagaloren. I know THT. I read it, and am familiar with MA's work. There is a pandemic. That's not a conspiracy. No one is throwing away rights.

Suzi888. No, the vaccine is not a way out. It doesn't offer immunity, and doesn't prevent the spread. It's intended to prevent people from dying of CV (says GP: you'd have to ask them to clarify).

PersimmonTree · 20/03/2021 14:33

@MmeLaraque

Maxnon. "To send a message to the whole world God(s) traditionally works through forces of nature, sending plagues etc. Same reason you can't get insurance for Acts of God. Of course, no one in high office is going to suggest the possibility that God might be behind the scenes but enough funny memes have circulated to raise the question."

I have difficulty taking anyone seriously when they cite gods of any sort in serious context.

Sagaloren. I know THT. I read it, and am familiar with MA's work. There is a pandemic. That's not a conspiracy. No one is throwing away rights.

Suzi888. No, the vaccine is not a way out. It doesn't offer immunity, and doesn't prevent the spread. It's intended to prevent people from dying of CV (says GP: you'd have to ask them to clarify).

Yes, they are throwing away rights, I think mainly through fear and apathy. Latest example is stealth legislation with the new policing bill. The petition has less than 200,000 signatures, in a country of 66 million people.
LunaHeather · 20/03/2021 14:55

Heartfelt thanks to those protesting today

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