Disgusted By Dentists Behaviour!!!

[Windchangeface]

We moved home week before the pandemic and then non of the dentists were taking on patients.

This made me very nervous, I kept an eye out to jump as soon as they opened up.

Well...as of a few weeks ago 3/5 practises within a 15 mile radius of us put up notices on their websites ‘taking on new patients’ great I rang to register me, DH and small DS. But oh no, they aren’t taking on any NHS patients only private or Denplan! (Would cost us a minimum of £50 per month and I’m currently pregnant so should be free anyway). The receptionists at all 3 massively tried to sell me Denplan and actually made me feel like a total sponge for asking about NHS.

‘Most families prefer Denplan’ erm sorry Shannon but I highly doubt ‘most’ families prefer to spend £50+ per month on something that should be £20 a visit for them and free for their kids!

One of the receptionists even told me (in a very snooty tone) ‘no we aren’t taking NHS patients we’ve got enough of those) another stated ‘we’ve met our quota for NHS so are only taking paying patients’.

Given DH is a Dr who spends all day looking after hospital patients free of charge I’m at a loss to understand why dentists feel they’re above the NHS.

Horrible, elitist attitude excluding people who can’t afford to pay from adequate healthcare and forcing those who can to pay high premiums they shouldn’t have to!

But they don't have any NHS appointments available, they've offered you a solution.

You haven't listened to a word anyone has said on this thread about NHS dentistry and are taking out your inferiority complex on a dental receptionist.

As I said you are welcome to lobby the government for properly funded NHS dentistry, but don't take out your frustrations on the receptionist.

@Windchangeface

YANBU, and I am really sorry you have had such a hard time on this thread.

Some posters are seriously projecting on here, and as a few others have said, their anger is misplaced.

You have EVERY RIGHT to NHS dental treatment, and the accusations of entitled and grabby are just nasty, as well as inaccurate.

I agree that some dentists DO try to upsell, and some of their practices are a disgrace. Trying to fleece people for every last penny.

Not ALL dentists do this by the way, and some are wonderful, and hard-working, and decent, but some of them do it. Anyone who denies this happens, is deluded.

Scandalous, and about time they were investigated for this. Trying to sell you a costly DENPLAN plan, and making you feel like shit for refusing is disgusting.

I hope you find a good NHS dentist soon (there are a few!)

Its shocking. And if it was anything other than dentistry there would be outcry.

Could you imagine if you came on and said you'd been asked to pay for chemo or it would be refused, or that you weren't entitled to an operation you needed because you didn't want to pay. Its a service the NHS subsidise but its impossible to get an NHS dentist. It's sheer greed.

I'm an NHS patients at a dentist, covered by maternity exemption at the moment, I'm having serious dental issues but due to not being a private patient they won't see me, they will if I pay privately though. Its horrific.

That's so sad and I'm worried a sign of things to come fit health care. And it's not "the state" providing it for free, it's our taxes that I gladly pay to make sure everyone has équitable access to the essentials like dental care.

I think your anger is misplaced. Be angry at the government who don’t properly fund NHS dentistry. Or be angry at the electorate who vote for Tory governments who underfund the NHS.
I personally think all dentistry should be funded through the NHS. I would be happier to pay higher taxes to fund this.

Educate yourself about how the NHS reimburses dentists and you'll understand why dentists are leaving the NHS in droves.

We had exactly the same experience as you, Zero NHS lists available; urgent care required, no choice but to pay up and join a plan at new dentist. The difference in care and treatment is so staggering I wish we'd done it years ago.

Could you imagine if you came on and said you'd been asked to pay for chemo or it would be refused, or that you weren't entitled to an operation you needed because you didn't want to pay. Its a service the NHS subsidise but its impossible to get an NHS dentist. It's sheer greed.

What do you mean "can you imagine"?! People are refused treatment for chemo or operations sometimes. Some of those people pay for private treatment instead. It's not greedy to refuse to treat people on the NHS if they are not going to be reimbursed enough.

Totally agree with you op, I think part of the issue is funding and NHS funding for dentistry needs to increase because it's scandalous that so many people are left without care.

I'm phobic of dentists and so I pay for private treatment because in my experience nhs appointments are rushed and you don't get a great standard of care even if you do find an NHS place. It's awful that it's such a two tier system.

I'm surprised that people feel it should be as well, fundamental to the NHS is that it's for everyone. When it becomes for the poor, as it seems to have become in dentistry, that's when it becomes a poorer service.

Other countries spend more on healthcare and have better services as a result. We need to stop accepting this idea that service is necessarily constrained and demand more be spent on it.

Weird how these hard up dentists are not highlighting their plight and doing more to get greater funding from the NHS.
Its almost as if working in private practise just brings in more money, which of course isn't aligned with their original motivations for getting into dentistry.

@3WildOnes

I think your anger is misplaced. Be angry at the government who don’t properly fund NHS dentistry. Or be angry at the electorate who vote for Tory governments who underfund the NHS. I personally think all dentistry should be funded through the NHS. I would be happier to pay higher taxes to fund this.

This.

@Suzi888 : See if there is a Dental Technician in your DM's area. DH needed a denture repair and just used the dental technician's services.

I’m a private dentist (NHS kids).
I switched to private not to make more money, but to be able to provide a better standard of care. I earn the same because I spend longer with my patients now. We use better quality materials and labs and I can take my time to do the best job I can with no UDA treadmill.
That’s why I got into Dentistry and I am happy to be private now.

The NHS does not pay for the buildings and equipment for a dental surgery like they do for hospitals. The individual surgeries have to fund that themselves and then they are sub-contracted by the NHS to provide services on their behalf. The partners are self employed and so can choose who they offer their services to.

Could you imagine if you came on and said you'd been asked to pay for chemo or it would be refused, or that you weren't entitled to an operation you needed because you didn't want to pay.

But this happens all the time. You must know this. It’s in the news often. There are only limited resources on the NHS. You can wait years for an operation deemed non urgent on the NHS. My MIL had to crawl on her hands and knees up the stairs because she needed her hip replaced. There are also many more options available for cancer treatment too if you can pay.

@Babygotblueyes

No MissLucyEyelesbarrow but I earn a lot less in the NHS than I would in a private company. Because I feel people should be able to access what I do free of charge, because this is civilized society.

And how is the NHS service you work for funded, @Babygotblueyes? I bet you don't have a clue about the commissioning arrangements or tariffs, because you have the luxury of never having to think about them. Most NHS staff never even manage a budget, let alone have to worry about keeping the lights on.

I agree that basic dental care should be free at the point of access but, unlike you, I don't expect individual dentists to subsidise care out of their own pockets if the NHS won't pay.

There should be full NHS dental care for children; all adults should pay, as happens in Denmark.

@Suzi888

OP I agree with you. DM can’t get one either. Never goes, dentist phobia but her dentures have broken it’ll cost her thousands to get new ones. If it’s just a check up you need it shouldn’t cost too much? To be honest I think it’s an excuse because they know people are desperate.

Look up dentures repairs there are some fantastic ones where you can go direct

Lots of misconceptions about Denplan here.

In general, most dentists make less money through Denplan than they would through offering private dentistry only. But the benefit for them is a regular, guaranteed income, and a higher standard of dental health.

That's because it's a capitation scheme, not an insurance scheme (although I believe they do offer an insurance scheme too for those who want it). It encourages prevention, negating the need of costly treatments. Both patient and dentist are incentivised to try to avoid costly treatments - the patient in order to keep their monthly payment low and the dentist in order to not have to undertake more complex procedures which will often be at a loss.

Dentists push it because it's mutually beneficial. They'd make more money off you, on average, if they just got you to go private.

I totally agree that everyone should have access to free NHS dentistry. But they don't, and that isn't the dentists' fault. Far from it.

I should add that many dentists offer similar plans to Denplan which they run themselves. I'm not aware of any other national capitation schemes but there may well be some.

Why is everyone so busy defending poor dentists - why arent we angry with the government for not funding them properly? if they were funded like GPs and hospitals nobody would have this problem and everyone would be entitled to see one - for free.

I would happily pay more tax to cover this, because i understand the money has to come from somewhere - but for most people paying a bit extra tax every month is easier than finding a few hundred quid at short notice when you need a filling.

Its disgusting people are actually defending that this is okay. Its not okay. Just like it wouldnt be okay for someone with a broken leg to get told well find £500 or we wont see you mate.

Like most things, people turn on each other instead of looking at the cause. It’s the government. It’s not any individual dentists fault for the current system.

Not ALL dentists do this by the way, and some are wonderful, and hard-working, and decent, but some of them do it. Anyone who denies this happens, is deluded

Scandalous, and about time they were investigated for this. Trying to sell you a costly DENPLAN plan, and making you feel like shit for refusing is disgusting

Sigh. Denplan isn't upselling, as @peachgreen has explained. Capitation plans like Denplan discourage upselling. Where upselling occurs, it's in fully private dentistry.

I don't think Denplan is great though, it might not be upselling but the fact you cant even get a standard price for a plan is shite - they need to be more open about what you pay for and exactly what you get. You should not need to enquire with the dentist - it should be freely available information.

I don't want to sound snobby, but I am happy to pay for the privilege of not being subjected to the slap dash fuckery that is NHS dentistry. I had a dental accident as a child and for twenty years I was given appallingly negligent care by a string of NHS dentists. From age 11 to age 31 I was too afraid to smile in public. Then I paid for private care. Five sessions and the discomfort I'd had for two decades was solved, both medically and cosmetically. I'm not made of money at all, but all 3 of my DC are under a private dentist now- no way will I subject them to what I went through! Private dentistry, in my experience, is worth every penny.