Did you make the choice to be / not be religious?

[the0logical]

Just been reading another thread on here about religion and I always think the theological discussions on here are fascinating.

I'll start - I identify as an athiest, I was brought up in a non-religious family but attended heavily Catholic schools. I didn't like some of the ideologies that became mixed into the religious elements of my schooling (e.g. through correlation or randomness, the most "devout" children were always the most prejudiced) and this pushed me away from entering into any faith. I studied Philosophy & Religion at a higher level and then learned about my perception of fallacies in most major religions, which I couldn't seem to logically support especially when I didn't have any feelings of faith. I've never felt the capacity to let myself be succumbed by a religion, though I have tried - I just don't believe.

So, guess I'm just curious to know some reasons why people are / aren't religious and how much of a "choice" it is. Not a reporter before anyone asks, just a nerd who loves anecdotes especially in a religious debate!

YABU - I made an active choice to become religious, or to become non-religious
YANBU - I didn't make any choice, I have always believed / never believed
(hoping that makes sense!)

*I'd wonder where I went wrong, what makes her go to such a sexist, discriminatory ideal
I'd still love and accept her but I'd feel like a failed her if she needed religion in her life

I agree.

My mum is from Belfast and raised Protestant, however my dad hates religion in all its forms so I was brought up atheist. I actually have always loved churches and going to church (depending on the type of service), however I simply cannot believe that the Bible is true and that there is someone watching me who cares about whether I masturbate or not.

When you read a Children’s Bible with the stories broken down into really simple language it’s just bonkers (I’m sure some of the stories have got their roots in historical fact). I don’t believe in God or follow a religion but I do like the idea of there being something bigger than myself, a power that binds us all together.

I've just never believed, I was given a bible as a small child and went to Sunday school with a friend a couple of times. I just didn't get anything from it and as I get older the more ludicrous organised religion seems.

I was raised going to church every sunday. I didnt hate it but just accepted it was what it was. I liked the church youth group and made many friends there. I have wonderful memories of that time.
At university, i looked at joining the Christian Union but was horrified at the doctrine statement you had to sign. I dont remember much of it but what stood out was the fact "I believe that all non-believers will go to hell". I hated that. It was far too black and white for me and didnt take into account other cultures. I didnt miss church and just enjoyed my university experience.
About 5 years later, i had moved to a new area and tried a church, mainly because i was lonely and trying to form links. It was full-on and made me slightly uncomfortable but i persevered to give it a chance. The last straw though was when i attended a bible study and the topic turned to homosexuality. I have done amateur dramatics, danced and took performing arts at university so i had many dear gay friends. One member of the bible study group shared, with glee, that she had a gay work colleague who she had spoken to. She had convinced him that he was 'wrong' in the way he felt, that it was shameful and God was disappointed with his 'choices'. She actually persuaded him to become celibate and convinced him he needed to work on himself. I felt physically sick. She was so proud of herself.
I knew by the smiling faces around me that they agreed with her. I never returned.
Now, i have my beliefs but am not a practising Christian. I know that theres something greater than me out there but dont feel the need to join a church.

@Pythonesque

I like the way in wich you have articulated your post, especially this part:

Our religion is intensely personal, it is about having a personal relationship with God, and it is up to us individually to work it out. Having that background means that we want to examine the Bible and consider carefully where we stand on issues and why - of course discussion with others and guidance from church leaders helps, but "it is because it is" will never work for me

If my DDs chose to have a faith, I would be fine with that. I have many friends and relatives who have faith of all kinds and it just isn't an issue, because they're lovely people whose values align with mine. I know how my DDs were raised and I know they would never become the kind of narrow-minded bigoted people who like to hide behind their beliefs to justify their awful attitudes towards others. I have absolutely no issue with believers, only with individuals or groups who use their 'faith' as an excuse to be awful to others. I know too many genuine religious people who are not like that to believe that religion is all bad - it just isn't for me.

B33Fr33 Your views are incredibly extreme to believe that all people of faith are oppressed and controlled, I would honestly love to meet you in real life to discuss it further with you!

Can you expand on why you believe that? I totally understand that, in the past and in some churches today there are elements of control and oppression, but in the (non conformist) faith that I follow I, personally,
have never met those views. Not all churches are sexist, homophobic and discriminatory - of course I know those views have been held in the past but for many of us you are not describing the faith we follow today.

I'm not christened, my parents are not religious although they were christened.

We went to faith schools but that's because there were no other options locally.

I am not religious and am quite sceptical about the beliefs side of it all, particularly Christianity and Catholicism.

Currently with 200 votes the totals are

YABU - 50%
YANBU - 51%

So does that mean 1% are agnostic or what?

Phew, it's changed to 49%/51%, the universe has been restored.

@GuineaPigsAreTribblesWithEyes

I don't think it's possible to make a choice about what you will believe to be the truth.

If I stood in my local park and held a rock in my hand in front of me, I wouldn't be able to choose to genuinely believe that if I let go, it would fall upwards. My belief that it would fall downwards isn't something that can be changed through power of will.

I guess a religious person (a believer in the supernatural) would choose to believe that eventually, if you keep letting go, it might fall upwards. Especially if they had an old book saying it would.

I don’t have the right personality to be religious I’ve decided. I’m too disagreeable and stubborn to just go along with stuff that in reality sounds like nonsense to me.

My children go to a faith school and I struggle. My eight year old will tell me that God made the earth in six days whilst also recognising all the scientific information we now know in regard to the universe and the most likely explanation of how the earth came about. Those two things are massively at odds with each other yet to my child they can coexist happily in his mind. For me I’m like this 🤯

I do have a spiritual faith though. I like the idea that loved ones still look over us in some way and I believe in the concept of fate and creating a positive space where positive things can happen. So I’m not an atheist. Agnostic I think is the right word.

OP, why do you want to know?

Phew, it's changed to 49%/51%, the universe has been restored

Add to that that the publicly Christian people I have known in my life, have been on the whole, intolerant arseholes. I think if I’d had some really positive interactions with religious people I might feel differently. There is just one lady I know who is genuinely lovely, would do anything for anyone and considers her volunteering part of her faith.

My Dad was raised Catholic, however, he actively raised us as to not to believe in religion. I was the 1st of our family not to go to Catholic school for generations.

I'm 39 and still don't really know what I really believe!

OP, why do you want to know?

Curiosity! I think a lot of religion demonstrates the fundamental differences between human beings, and what people "need" in order to have faith in something without practical evidence.
Without being presumptuous, I'd be very interested in reading a study on the logical capacity / nature of believers versus non-believers. I think knowing what causes some people to feel God's presence, and if that's a true cause (e.g. God) or an untrue cause (e.g. wishful thinking, loneliness, some genetic survival strategy etc) would be so interesting to discover.

So nothing seedy or Daily Mail-related, just found this a very interesting debate!

Brought up loosely Christian, CofE. Got quite into the church scene in my early teens, then developed my critical thinking skills and couldn't reconcile believing in something invisible, intangible, unknowable and ineffective.

Now quite strongly atheist and can't really understand why anyone would believe in something there's no evidence for, just because someone in authority told them it was true. 🤷🏼‍♀️

@OvertiredandConfused

For me, I’m not sure it’s a choice. I have a strong belief in God. I also have free will to ignore Him - and have tried to at various points in my life!

I pray / talk to God often. Outside of formal church it’s more a conversation than the “hands together, eyes closed” prayers of my childhood. For me, His response is an inner voice or instinct. I fairly often get a random ideas about what I “should“ do and I believe that is God. These suggestions can be quite inconvenient but I’ve learned not to ignore them, He has a way of being gently persistent.

Whilst I find some of the church rituals that have been part of my life for all of my life very comforting, I don’t get caught up in the doctrine of any religion. For me, it’s simply a matter of “what would Jesus do?” . There is also much that I don’t claim to understand. Ultimately, it’s a matter of faith not proof.

Great post, I think faith looks like this for me too, although I don’t think I could explain it this well.

would be so interesting to discover

Hmmm... difficult question, as I guess it's different for everyone. I'm not sure there's a genetic or neurological link (might be wrong though)

Whole extended family was and are RC. Hand me down beliefs that nobody ever questioned, except me. Horrible nuns in primary school and forced to endure waffle from droning priests at weekly mass. Cue guilt tripping when I declared at 15 that I don't want any of that. I was made to feel like the devil incarnate for a while. Plus as PPs have mentioned the church's attitudes to women and LGBT+ people didn't sit well with me. Last time I was inside a Catholic church was for my late mum's memorial mass out of respect more than anything.

I wouldn't say I'm an atheist, more of a doubting agnostic with spiritual leanings. I like the thought of some sort of higher consciousness or whatever but there's not enough evidence or proof. I appreciate people take comfort from their chosen faith but there's nothing that's resonated with me.

I think some people's view of religion and spirituality is clouded by specific negative experiences they've had with humans. It's happened to me as well, but I make a conscious effort to separate the two, as human actions have nothing to do with God or the principles of most religions

I'd be very interested in reading a study on the logical capacity / nature of believers versus non-believers

can't really understand why anyone would believe in something there's no evidence for, just because someone in authority told them it was true

I sense that a lot of people have a problem with 'control' and 'authority'. And that's fine. But we are all 'controlled' by something/someone's beliefs, even without realising.

Hmmm... difficult question, as I guess it's different for everyone. I'm not sure there's a genetic or neurological link (might be wrong though)

Yes, I'm sure it would be quite a difficult study to carry out! Re; your genetics point though, I think there are a few studies to demonstrate religion is at least partially influenced by genetics. As a small example;
Until about 25 years ago, scientists assumed that religious behaviour was simply the product of a person’s socialisation – or “nurture”. But more recent studies, including those on adult twins who were raised apart, suggest genes contribute about 40% of the variability in a person’s religiousness.

(www.newscientist.com/article/dn7147-genes-contribute-to-religious-inclination/#ixzz6pMdnMnYB).
There's quite a lot of interesting things in this article ^. And it does seem like there are genetic links for quite a few behaviours; (www.livescience.com/47288-twin-study-importance-of-genetics.html).

Sorry for the link spam!