Did you make the choice to be / not be religious?

[the0logical]

Just been reading another thread on here about religion and I always think the theological discussions on here are fascinating.

I'll start - I identify as an athiest, I was brought up in a non-religious family but attended heavily Catholic schools. I didn't like some of the ideologies that became mixed into the religious elements of my schooling (e.g. through correlation or randomness, the most "devout" children were always the most prejudiced) and this pushed me away from entering into any faith. I studied Philosophy & Religion at a higher level and then learned about my perception of fallacies in most major religions, which I couldn't seem to logically support especially when I didn't have any feelings of faith. I've never felt the capacity to let myself be succumbed by a religion, though I have tried - I just don't believe.

So, guess I'm just curious to know some reasons why people are / aren't religious and how much of a "choice" it is. Not a reporter before anyone asks, just a nerd who loves anecdotes especially in a religious debate!

YABU - I made an active choice to become religious, or to become non-religious
YANBU - I didn't make any choice, I have always believed / never believed
(hoping that makes sense!)

I was always under the impression that you don’t choose to believe or not believe, it’s just kind of who you are? I know some here feel differently so this thread has been an interesting read.

Personally I would love to be religious, I’d love to believe in heaven and that a god is watching over me. I have wished it to feel real, just for some hope at times. I can’t bring myself to believe it, it’s just not who I am.

one key concept is this 'club membership' point- you can only be saved if you join, do x,y,z, believe

Yes, I agree this can be controversial and somewhat unpalatable, but to me it's more like a metaphor.

I think what's important is the core principles many religions share (e.g. some form of the Ten Commandments, that there's some sort of superior being responsible for creation), not the 'petty' stuff if you like

Those of you who are atheists, how would you feel if your DC chose to be religious when they were older?

I asked the same question on here a few years ago and was told by one mumsnetters that they would actually be very disappointed if their DC had a faith.

My close friend at school was raised by her strongly atheist father, she had to sit out of assembly and RE lessons .... in her 50s she has now become quite religious .....

As I said earlier, I was not raised to attend church regularly or be 'religious' but for the last 40 years being a church member has been important to me.

Working in medicine, I lost all faith many years ago. However, I've seen the value of strong faith to people in very difficult circumstances. It's been a huge help to them.

@Ragwort

Those of you who are atheists, how would you feel if your DC chose to be religious when they were older?

I asked the same question on here a few years ago and was told by one mumsnetters that they would actually be very disappointed if their DC had a faith.

My close friend at school was raised by her strongly atheist father, she had to sit out of assembly and RE lessons .... in her 50s she has now become quite religious .....

As I said earlier, I was not raised to attend church regularly or be 'religious' but for the last 40 years being a church member has been important to me.

I would wonder what had happened to make them 'find faith.' Surely, atheism is the default?

I don't think it's possible to make a choice about what you will believe to be the truth.

If I stood in my local park and held a rock in my hand in front of me, I wouldn't be able to choose to genuinely believe that if I let go, it would fall upwards. My belief that it would fall downwards isn't something that can be changed through power of will.

for the last 40 years being a church member has been important to me

Yes. I think most people need some sort of 'belief' (I certainly do). If some don't find it in organised religion, they will probably follow an ideology, or something else to be guided by (even though they would like to think that they are completely independently minded).

I mean, chances are they are going to be influenced by something else, even unconsciously

Whether there is a god or not organised religion and collective worship are for the control and oppression of individuals within commu ities and it is shocking that anyone with a sense of right or wrong attends. I literally have zero respect for anyone actively being a part of an organised religion. Every person who I know to do with organised religion is either abused, manipulative, scamming or an out and out abuser.

If there was a god interested in good they would certainly sort the fuck out of the horrors done by "people of faith".

@B33Fr33 there are lots of kind, compassionate people involved in organised religion, whose only aim is to do good. It's such an insensitive and unfair post

Not particularly religious parents but I went to a CofE primary and we prayed every day and learnt the bible etc. I used to pray every night at home and absolutely believed in God. I started questioning things from around 10 years old, and the crux of it was realising that I wouldn't have believed in any of it unless I was specifically told it was true every day.

I was agnostic until I was around 18. My nan died, and at her funeral I knew I was an atheist as I didn't believe in an afterlife. I didn't think she was going to heaven or anywhere, but she had died. I have her memories with me and so many things remind me of her, but that's all.

Can't click either YABU and YANBU - it's a bit of both.

I was raised as a Christian, so can't remember a time when I didn't believe God exists. But the choice to follow him actively was mine. There have been many times when I've felt following him was way too much hard work (it's not the easy path in a way), but I've always made the choice to keep going. I love him.

It seems like you're actually asking, can you choose to follow God even if you don't believe he exists? I suppose my question is, why would you want to? Unless you're saying you believe he probably doesn't exist, but there is a small chance he does, and if he does you don't want to miss out on knowing him? I've known people who came to faith this way, who have basically said to God, 'I'm not sure if I believe in you, but I am going to choose to.' And they've started praying regularly and finding out more about him. They've all come to faith, because if you choose God, he doesn't reject you. He can give you faith.

I'm not sure if that's exactly what you're asking tbh! Sorry if I've misunderstood.

And like any kind and compassionate person in any faith they are being taken advantage of.

I was brought up as an atheist. I started believing in God aged 18, I cannot unbelieve. I chose to be Roman catholic aged 25. I also don’t believe everything in the history of the Catholic Church was right, I don’t know any Catholics who don’t disagree with something (or a lot of things) of church teaching, the difference is majority were brought up Catholic. I don’t believe God asked us not to think or question, doesn’t want us all living cognitive dissonance. However to have faith, there has to be some trusting, that although we cannot see all the answers, that there is an absolute right and wrong and that God is available to us, yet mostly very separate from us.

I said that I don't think it's possible to choose to change what you genuinely believe to be the truth.

I do, however, think you can choose to expose yourself to things that may change what you believe to be true, as in Feisty's come-to-faith examples.

Be careful what you expose yourself to, I guess.

Be careful what you expose yourself to, I guess

I completely agree. And try and get a proper understanding of what it is about, do proper research from a variety of different sources (be it religion or any other ideology)

I was brought up Church of England Christian. Went to church at least twice a week for my entire childhood. I didn't 'find' my faith until I was an adult. My daughter went to church and a church school and doesn't believe (although she once asked when small if the lady on the sat nav was God's wife).

I think you can be taught about a faith, but actually believing it is a different thing.

What I’m saying is I didn’t have to be Catholic, I don’t know how far into other religions I could have stretched.
What joins me with all the people in mass is the common bit of our belief or faith.
I became Catholic legitimately (nun classes), I like the community aspect and I like that my children are exposed to people of faith. However I didn’t do it for community, when I was atheist, I’d have had considered church slightly immoral and outdated (but really I didn’t have much thought other than skimming over the “beliefs” and “history” and thinking they were wrong and missing the whole point).
The point being we are all still human (even priests) and the church is a living being, it is it’s members.
I find social media/attitudes less and less forgiving. Less and less able to consider a grey area and less and less willing or able to love a flawed person. I’m all about the grey area, we’re all flawed and that is ok, love someone is not really a feeling, it is an action.

@tangerinelollipop
there are lots of kind, compassionate people involved in organised religion, whose only aim is to do good. It's such an insensitive and unfair post.*

*In the hope of being rewarded in the afterlife.

Organised religion has always been, and always will be, about power and control. It's no surprise that it traces its roots back to when humans shifted from small hunter gather tribes to larger agrarian societies. It was a means of controlling people then and its a means of controlling people now.

Like @FeistySheep I was both raised a Christian (CofE at the protestant end!) and actively chose as I became old enough to understand that choice. My mother has a strong faith that she has always lived out, so not just in her involvemenet with church but her attitudes to other people and helping where she can. When my youngest was confirmed (lives in another country) she was able to attend and I commented to her that my children were a testament to her faith passed down.

My mother has a science degree and my father was an electrical engineer. So science was always a part of our lives and in fact I knew by the age of 7 that I would be "a scientist" when I grew up. I have long felt that I was lucky enough to have been given "equal faith" in science and in God. When I did a bit of theology study I realised that, in some ways, theology takes over where science runs out of answers.

The music side of religion has also always been important to us. In fact, church music was the way my mother was able to "keep the door open" for my father, who had turned away from organised religion as a teenager. This meant that, although we never really talked about it, there was something helpful to him at the end of his life. My own children have actually been choristers - by their own choices - and chose to get confirmed at the earliest opportunity, age 11 and 12 (and yes to real choice, it was offered but by no means expected of them).

Our religion is intensely personal, it is about having a personal relationship with God, and it is up to us individually to work it out. Having that background means that we want to examine the Bible and consider carefully where we stand on issues and why - of course discussion with others and guidance from church leaders helps, but "it is because it is" will never work for me.

Organised religion has always been, and always will be, about power and control

I don't agree with this myself

But, anyhow, there are lots of ideologies today that are about power and control and don't seem to generate as much controversy. Think of 'cancel culture', etc. A lot appear to tolerate it.

@Ragwort, I would not be disappointed if my dd found a faith when she was older, but I guess it would very much depend on what that faith was and how she interpreted it.

If she found a set of beliefs that gave her comfort, spiritual practices that gave her peace and a community that gave her support, I would be very happy for her.

If she found a warped belief system with lots of restrictive rules, an unhealthy preoccupation with sin and salvation, and an insistence that there was only one true path in life, then yes, I would be very disappointed. I would feel that I had failed as a parent by not teaching her adequate critical thinking skills and I would be deeply concerned about what had made her so vulnerable to that kind of nonsense in the first place.

I think you can be taught about a faith, but actually believing it is a different thing

And I think we can change our minds several times along our lives as we go through different stages/ experiences, and that's ok as well IMO

Those of you who are atheists, how would you feel if your DC chose to be religious when they were older?
I'd wonder where I went wrong, what makes her go to such a sexist, discriminatory ideal
I'd still love and accept her but I'd feel like a failed her if she needed religion in her life

If she found a warped belief system with lots of restrictive rules, an unhealthy preoccupation with sin and salvation, and an insistence that there was only one true path in life, then yes, I would be very disappointed

I agree, but most religious people don't share this overly restrictive view, they tend to be more pragmatic