Did you make the choice to be / not be religious?

[the0logical]

Just been reading another thread on here about religion and I always think the theological discussions on here are fascinating.

I'll start - I identify as an athiest, I was brought up in a non-religious family but attended heavily Catholic schools. I didn't like some of the ideologies that became mixed into the religious elements of my schooling (e.g. through correlation or randomness, the most "devout" children were always the most prejudiced) and this pushed me away from entering into any faith. I studied Philosophy & Religion at a higher level and then learned about my perception of fallacies in most major religions, which I couldn't seem to logically support especially when I didn't have any feelings of faith. I've never felt the capacity to let myself be succumbed by a religion, though I have tried - I just don't believe.

So, guess I'm just curious to know some reasons why people are / aren't religious and how much of a "choice" it is. Not a reporter before anyone asks, just a nerd who loves anecdotes especially in a religious debate!

YABU - I made an active choice to become religious, or to become non-religious
YANBU - I didn't make any choice, I have always believed / never believed
(hoping that makes sense!)

Yeah I mean you're telling me what I think. And getting it wrong. I guess you've got your reasons but you really shouldn't do that.

I wouldn't have an opinion on the subject at all if there weren't any believers or any faiths. The only reason I've got an opinion is because some people in the world tell me that's how it is, that there's this creator. But I don't believe them. And I don't believe in their creator. It's just as simple as that.

SmokedDuck you're conflating atheism, which is just a word meaning absence of belief in gods (which is only necessary because there are so many people who do believe in gods), with all the other ideas people may or may not hold when they happen to be atheists. You can't tell anything about a person from the description "atheist" except that they don't have a belief in any god or gods. They might believe in all kinds of other supernatural things, hold all kinds of different philosophical positions, etc. — the only thing you know for sure is that their worldview doesn't involve gods.

I get the feeling you want your words to upset me @JackieTheFart

I think you want to place your (quite right) anger at the Church on to people who you think haven’t quite got it yet.

I feel the same way you do about the RC church and also it’s historical role in anti Semitism leading to the Holocaust. My introduction to faith as a concept was RC as an accident of my parents birth but I take guidance and wisdom wherever I find it and am still struggling myself with the Church - I’m just trying to keep my faith separate atm.

This is not the God I know and not a single person of faith (or of no faith) I know would condone this behaviour

What do you make of God's Old Testament kill count?

But it would be real shame if this thread became one of antagonism and defensiveness because this morning we were sharing perspective s and now we are having to defend them which maybe better off on a different thread.

I made a choice to be religious. I gave up on God at 14 but came back to church in later life. Although I made a choice I feel I was led back by God's grace. It was a pretty shocking experience at the time. I was not unhappy before my reversion but once I started talking to God and more startlingly, getting answers, I felt a sense of loss for all the years I missed out on going to church. I'm a lot happier in myself now and I feel profoundly grateful.

There is so much we don't understand. I'm Catholic but believe other faiths are valid. There is only one truth and none of us here know for sure. I find that exciting. I certainly feel sure in myself as a result of my experiences with God and am happy to (try to) follow a faithful life as a result.

All religions have shameful pasts, we can’t pick on one in particular.

I wouldn’t say I was particularly religious but I do have a strong belief in God, my creator. I find it illogical not to believe we are here for a reason.

God has been known by many of the greatest contributors in all spheres of science through out history. Glallileo said “Math is the language in which God wrote the universe” If some of the most renowned, intelligent physicists the world has ever known concede that there must be a higher intelligence then who are we to not at least have an open mind.

@LadyfromtheBelleEpoque I absolutely don’t want to upset you. What particular part of my posts makes you think that? I do find religion upsetting and I acknowledge I therefore have strong feelings about it.

I confess I’m not really sure I understand what you mean though. I don’t have anger towards individuals unless they’ve actively done something to make me angry. Yes, you’re right I have anger towards an institution that I feel is a form of controlling people so that those in power can do bad things. I acknowledge it’s not all of them, but maybe the constant stories have soured my perception. I understand that you and others find comfort and a sense of community from your church. That is an alien concept to me. Same as say, supporting a football team is and having that shared experience.

If some of the most renowned, intelligent physicists the world has ever known concede that there must be a higher intelligence then who are we to not at least have an open mind

Yes, I would assume those with an inquisitive mind and an inclination for deep thought are 'at least' agnostic.

I feel the same way you do about the RC church

I think over the years there appears to have been a concerted effort to taint the Catholic Church with bad press, which is unfair. In a way they have been victims of their own success and some resent this. Every institution has issues and many people seem much more tolerant and respectful of other religions, but not the RC.

Just saw the last post on threads I'm on.

Religion/ spirituality is about belief.

Science is about theory, experiment, prove.

I know some religious physicists. Also athiest ones.

The two are not intertwined. If a religious scientist feels that the phenomenon they are interested in is a sign of a higher power that's up to them.

Without experiment/ proof it remains s theory. And not one that mainstream science is looking at TBH.

@tangerinelollipop

I think it is an attack on the poor. Free (good) education, free community services, a support network. It is the infrastructure for the poor that is being dismantled.

And yes, I know there will be cries of 'all the money in the Vatican'.

'God has been known by many of the greatest contributors in all spheres of science through out history. Glallileo said “Math is the language in which God wrote the universe” If some of the most renowned, intelligent physicists the world has ever known concede that there must be a higher intelligence then who are we to not at least have an open mind.'

Galileo was forced to recent his finding that the earth went around the sun by the RC church. It was seen as heresy.

From wiki

'Galileo's discoveries were met with opposition within the Catholic Church, and in 1616 the Inquisition declared heliocentrism to be "formally heretical." Heliocentric books were banned and Galileo was ordered to abstain from holding, teaching or defending heliocentric ideas.[2]

Galileo went on to propose a theory of tides in 1616, and of comets in 1619; he argued that the tides were evidence for the motion of the Earth. In 1632 Galileo published his Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, which implicitly defended heliocentrism, and was immensely popular. Responding to mounting controversy over theology, astronomy and philosophy, the Roman Inquisition tried Galileo in 1633 and found him "vehemently suspect of heresy", sentencing him to indefinite imprisonment. Galileo was kept under house arrest until his death in 1642.'

Not a great example tbh.

It is the infrastructure for the poor that is being dismantled

It's indeed worrying

I don't believe in god, I've never believed in god. God and organised religion is nothing to me. Personally there is nothing even remotely appealing about religion. I don't even know that I would call myself atheist as that seems too connected with religion.

I do find religion interesting from a historical perspective and obvs it still impacts our lives, particularly women's lives, around the world so I pay a bit of attention to organised religion for that reason.

Galileo's discoveries were met with opposition within the Catholic Church...Heliocentric books were banned and Galileo was ordered to abstain from holding, teaching or defending heliocentric ideas

Well, it's exactly what's happening today when some are blinded by ideologies and fuel 'cancel culture'

Not a lot has changed in 400 years sadly

I was brought up going to church once a month but my parents no longer/never did believe (I'm not sure).

I want to believe in God but don't really as my scientific mind can't comprehend it. However, I go and take my children to church (pre covid) and they love it, I have made super friends by going and become part of a loving, supportive community. I'd like to make the decision to believe but can't! Will still go though as I like the singing and people.

More on RC and Galileo

'The Church eventually lifted the ban on Galileo's Dialogue in 1822, when it was common knowledge that the Earth was not the center of the Universe. Still later, there were statements by the Vatican Council in the early 1960's and in 1979 that implied that Galileo was pardoned, and that he had suffered at the hands of the Church. Finally, in 1992, three years after Galileo Galilei's namesake spacecraft had been launched on its way to Jupiter, the Vatican formally and publicly cleared Galileo of any wrongdoing.'

@NiceGerbil

I remember reading about this (his letter to the Pope asking for leniency was on display at the British Library). The Church knew of his scientific proofs and the earlier scientist who suggested heliocentrism (sorry, cant remember name now) but there was something else he said that was in contradiction to their other, scientific evidence, I thought. Wll try and find a link.

I was raised Jehovah’s Witness. Left at 18 because I wanted to do teenage things, stayed away because of child sex abuse cover ups, major hypocrisy, misogyny and doctrinal errors. 31 now, no regrets. Still believe in God ish, but in my own way and definitely with no fear of eternal death if I don’t pray for a bit.

@tangerinelollipop

I feel the same way you do about the RC church

I think over the years there appears to have been a concerted effort to taint the Catholic Church with bad press, which is unfair. In a way they have been victims of their own success and some resent this. Every institution has issues and many people seem much more tolerant and respectful of other religions, but not the RC.

Putting penis’ in children isn’t exactly bad press. Nor is locking up young pregnant women or fueling the spread of HIV.

SimonJT what a disgusting post. Of course not everyone in the Church does this. It's full of very decent people trying to do good. Also many religious people these days wear condoms as they try to be pragmatic obviously. Not sure what you mean about people being locked up either

SimonJT what a disgusting post.

I think you’ll find it’s the actions of people of the church, aided and abetted by the church authorities, that are the disgusting bit.

HTH.

I think you’ll find it’s the actions of people of the church

It's not everyone in the Church, it's not right to generalise, that's what I'm trying to say

It's not everyone in the Church

No, but let’s not forget the significant role the authorities of the church played in facilitating it by turning blind eyes and trying to cover it up. Disgusting indeed.