Did you make the choice to be / not be religious?

[the0logical]

Just been reading another thread on here about religion and I always think the theological discussions on here are fascinating.

I'll start - I identify as an athiest, I was brought up in a non-religious family but attended heavily Catholic schools. I didn't like some of the ideologies that became mixed into the religious elements of my schooling (e.g. through correlation or randomness, the most "devout" children were always the most prejudiced) and this pushed me away from entering into any faith. I studied Philosophy & Religion at a higher level and then learned about my perception of fallacies in most major religions, which I couldn't seem to logically support especially when I didn't have any feelings of faith. I've never felt the capacity to let myself be succumbed by a religion, though I have tried - I just don't believe.

So, guess I'm just curious to know some reasons why people are / aren't religious and how much of a "choice" it is. Not a reporter before anyone asks, just a nerd who loves anecdotes especially in a religious debate!

YABU - I made an active choice to become religious, or to become non-religious
YANBU - I didn't make any choice, I have always believed / never believed
(hoping that makes sense!)

Nobody would class me as religious because I don’t believe in shouting it from the rooftops. However I have a deep faith in God and an absolute certainty that we go on the next life when we die.

Not an active choice, no.

I was brought up in a strongly catholic environment. All my family/friends/peers were practicing catholic. However I knew from early on that the idea of a monotheist god made no sense to me and I couldn’t go along with that.

But not a choice - a question of faith (or more accurately, lack of)

@Kroptopbelly

Non believer here, logical choice as it’s all fairy stories that just does not make any sense.

What fascinates me is the way that millions and millions believe in it all. The psychology around this is so so interesting.

But surely it’s just as illogical to believe we’re here on this planet (with our very own moon and sun) the only inhabited one in our vast solar system (that we know of) in perfect position to sustain life......and believe it all came about from nothing. To me that’s as illogical as you can get. It seems far more logical to believe that we must have been created, we are here for a purpose. It’s certainly not a fairy story.

Evidence of Gods hand is everywhere on our beautiful planet.

I have a very strong faith which really doesn't align with modern day thinking and I am aware of that. I just can't not believe - I have had too many coincidences, my life is a witness to my faith.

I do struggle with Christians, in that, it does seem to attract a certain black and white rule follower thinker. And I am not like that, and my experience of God has not been like that.

I am a reverted Muslim. I chose to become a muslim years ago, and literally was the best day of my life.

I was born a Christian but never really followed it fully. Did attend church and church camps by myself as a teenager. I had a pretty rough childhood and left home at 18. I attended a church which was more like a party house with people wailing, yelling, clapping and twirling on a stage. It was also more about worshipping jesus which to be honest bothered me because God created jesus. Not the other way round. Every single bloody Sunday was a rock concert with thank you jesus and praising jesus and I felt like hang on, why are we not worshipping God.... So in the end, I stopped going. I kept up my faith at home but just stopped going to church. A little while later, I prayed.to God to bring me a good man as i was single at the time and wanted to meet someone and settle down. And oh low and behold I met my Dh. When we first met, he told me that he is Muslim, I said no problem that I am Christian. We literally got on like a house on fire and he told me he loved me 3 days after we met and I told him I loved him 2 days after that . He even brought me back to the restaurant we had our first date at and proposed. Just 3 months after meeting. I knew he was a serious guy and he began teaching me about his religion. Everything he taught me clicked and made sense. I had no idea that muslims believe in jesus. He explained that jesus never died on the cross and that in fact he was lifted to heaven by god as god would never allow his prophet to die in such a cruel and inhumane way. He also taught me that muslims love jesus and that they believe jesus was a messenger born by the virgin mary and that he came to the world to teach the world about God. I also I up verses in the bible where jesus said himself do not not put me higher than my father and where h also said do not worship me....
He also taught me about scientific facts that are written in the Quran and were written over 1400 years ago and these scientific facts are even only being proved today. He said look at the miracles of God, how the quran goes into depth about how a baby is created, the stages of a baby being a clot of blood and so on, before we had the technology today to prove it. He also taught me verses from the Quran to say to protect us from evil spirits. One day there was a ghost, in islam we call them jinns in the bathroom and the jinn was moving the clothes hanging on the bathroom door. All I had to say was I seek refuge in Allah from the devil. And I kid you not the clothes stopped swinging.
It is incredible. I decided that islam was for me as it is a faith that teaches worship only one God. To be kind and to pray and to help the poor and give charity. To me,.it all clicked into place and I decided I had to be a muslim. Since then my life has been wonderful. Of course , I have down days but I trust in Allah to get me through it. It hasn't been an easy road, I get laughed and mocked for wearing a hijab. People ask me if I joined ISIS or Taliban which is just so ridiculous because I hate them and what they have done ... . I have been called names because I married a man of a different ethnicity and been told I am a traitor for not marrying my own kind. Thats a joke. We are all one. We are all one kind. But you know what I am happy and my children are happy too. This is my path in life. I couldn't be happier.

@fluffysocks89
Well said

There's a big difference between having faith and following/ joining a particular religion. The latter is certainly a choice.

One of the greatest fallacies about Christianity is the idea that if you believed god exists you would automatically be a Christian. Even if faith is part of who you are, you are not bound to add your name to the institution.

I am not an atheist because I don't have a firm opinion on whether or not god exists. I don't really care either way. My position is that even if I were sure he did exist, I wouldn't worship him because he doesn't present a version of morality that I would subscribe to.

Faith is not a choice, but what you choose to do with it is.

But surely it’s just as illogical to believe we’re here on this planet (with our very own moon and sun) the only inhabited one in our vast solar system (that we know of) in perfect position to sustain life......and believe it all came about from nothing.

It's not "our very own" though. I believe some of it is fortunate coincidence, and some of it is evolving to make the best of the natural environments we exist in. If the concept of things coming from nothing is impossible / improbable to you, then who created God?

Evidence of Gods hand is everywhere on our beautiful planet.

If there were "evidence" surely we would have all collectively accepted God's existence as fact? Your perception is not the same as evidence.

I was brought up Catholic but as a result of seeing the harm this particular church has done to my family and others I made a choice to reject it and am now an atheist.

I don't "identify as" an atheist though : I am one. Not sure how you would distinguish between that and identifying as one.

Evidence of Gods hand is everywhere on our beautiful planet.

How is our beautiful planet evidence of specifically gods existence?

Sorry, seems my use of "identify" has been somewhat disruptive! I just mean I don't believe in God nor do I claim to / have any cultural ties to religion anymore. Apologies if that was not the way to phrase it, or if it has confused my message.

@TheKeatingFive

Evidence of Gods hand is everywhere on our beautiful planet.

How is our beautiful planet evidence of specifically gods existence?

Quite. I do find it difficult to engage with people who say 'look at [natural phenomenon], that's clearly evidence of God's existence'.

No, it isn't. A beautiful sunset is evidence of the laws of physics. That's it.

My family is historically non-religious and have been since around the 1820's - something to do with the East India Company and missionaries. I have never considered religion as something that was of any interest despite having always gone to cathedral schools (for music). I don't really understand belief at all.

I'm sensing from some posters (not all) an effort to somehow reaffirm a certain pride of being non-believers - also mixed with a touch of defensiveness.

It's uncalled for IMO

@pointythings

No, it isn't. A beautiful sunset is evidence of the laws of physics. That's it

It’s both - part of the greater ecological whole (sunset/physics/universe/) and something you can have an emotional response to. I think religion is the recognition of something that functions at both levels. The parts and the sun of those parts and our relationship to them.

Sum not sun!

and something you can have an emotional response to

You can have an emotional response to something without attributing it to evidence of a deity.

I don't understand the use of the word 'choice' in this context.

I would have a strong preference for there being some sort of god with some - definitely not all - of the features traditionally associated with such an entity.

At the same time, I don't think I've come across evidence that incontrovertibly points to the existence of a deity, so my tentative working conclusion has to be there isn't one.

Even if there is a god, and my mind is open to that, I cannot see myself as ever being religious, that is, belonging to a particular worship tribe.

No, it isn't. A beautiful sunset is evidence of the laws of physics. That's it.

But the laws of physics is evidence of something beyond it.

“The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament shows his handiwork”

@fluffysocks89

No, it isn't. A beautiful sunset is evidence of the laws of physics. That's it.

But the laws of physics is evidence of something beyond it.

“The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament shows his handiwork”

That's a pretty verse. Nothing more.

The laws of physics prove something created them? Maybe. A deity? Not until I see proof. Science does not work along the lines of 'Here is a thing. We cannot explain its existence, therefore this is proof that God exists.' Right now we can't prove or disprove the existence of God. So I'm choosing to operate on the premise that he doesn't exist and will require my hypothesis to be falsified in order to change my beliefs.

There is much joy, wonder and humility in accepting that there are many things we do not know and cannot know. To me, that's part of the beauty of living in this world as an atheist.

I was brought up in that kind of nonsense "oh, we'll let them decide when they're old enough" household where the only acceptable decision was to be the same as Mum and Dad - an atheist. Looking back, they weren't as open-minded as they thought they were and absolutely "indoctrinated" me and my brother.

I became a Christian in my mid-twenties - first C of E, then Catholic (which is what I should have done in the first place).

The term 'laws of physics' was introduced when most people thought there was a god in charge. 'Laws' is still used nowadays - although it is suggestive of an anthropomorphised understanding of reality. Having said that, it is indeed deeply mysterious that there are such laws, or regularities, as they might less confusingly be called.

I think I am one of the few people who have genuinely had warm and positive religious influences throughout my life and have actively chosen to follow a religion. I have never experienced anything extreme.

I was raised in the Church of Scotland, I went to Sunday School, I was in the choir, we had a youth group for a while but that didn't really last.
I never felt intoctrinated, I never felt pressured. I don't remember being lectured about sin or hell or anything. Everyone was friendly and kind and I felt I belonged there.

Now I am a member of a different Church of Scotland community. I love it. Sitting in church on a Sunday morning gives me a sense of peace and calm that I just don't get anywhere else. That's why God is right for me. I have watched religious services on zoom during lockdown, I have also listened to religious music and there are hymns and lyrics in hymns that just calm and reassure me in the same way sitting in church does.

Our church is open minded and forward looking. We have women in all jobs within our church, we have gay people, single parent families, kids who sit quietly, kids who are noisy, all are welcome. (I'm just picking these categories because I know they are commonly mentioned). We do have the odd older person who is set in their ways, I've had some interesting conversations with some of them. Our minister is open to all ideas, he regularly mentions the festivals of other religions, he mentions and prays for people struggling regardless of their faith, he will deal with difficult issues, he will challenge people's thinking and he would not allow unfair judgement or prejudice in our church.

God feels right to me, He's always been good to me, I have only ever seen good done in His name. I am very lucky. God is love.

So god created everything on Earth?
Why does he manifest earthquakes, tsunamis, drought?

The hymn "All Things Bright and Beautiful" is laughable.
Butterflies, daisies and ponies are cute.
What about the bacteria that causes tuberculosis, or chlamydia, tape worms, Covid, Hepatitis.

What was the plan there?

@Teaandakitkat you are very fortunate. I wish more people were made aware of the fact that it is possible to experience religion in this way.