Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Houseshare problems - tenant's new boyfriend refuses to leave

647 replies

FirstAvenue · 15/03/2021 16:05

Name changed, looking for advice here. I'll try not to go into too much detail.

I own a five bedroom house in a town a fair distance away and I let out four bedrooms under Assured Shorthold Tenancy Agreements. It's an all female house as I have found that way it is generally easier to manage from a distance.

I do everything as professionally as possible, I advertise empty rooms, take references from applicants, tell them the house rules and give the tenants a proper tenancy agreement which states that they have exclusive use of their bedroom and shared use of the communal areas.

One of the House rules states: "Your room is for single occupancy only and boyfriends / girlfriends etc. should only really stay every other weekend." Now it's not that I am a prude, it's just that I have learnt from previous bad experiences that the house becomes overcrowded and untidy and generally starts to smell if the house is over-occupied. It's very hard to let a room if the house smells.

One of the girls, let's call her Ann, got a new boyfriend about six months ago and recently he appears to have "moved in". She says he has not and that she is aware of the house rules, but he is "always there" despite him living nearby. Unfortunately it is not just a case of staying in her room, he seems to spend most of the time watching TV in the living room and has even set his laptop up in the kitchen.

One of the other girls, let's call her Betsy, has complained about his continued presence. Betsy says that she took the house on the basis that it was girls only, and that she feels uncomfortable with him being in the house all the time in his dressing gown.

I've asked Ann to stick to the house rules and to make sure he only stays ever other weekend, and she has at various times in the last two weeks a) denied that he stays there in the week, b) says he does stay over sometimes but the other girls don't mind, or c) says that he is her partner and she wants him to stay as much as possible. It is clear that she is not telling the truth.

Betsy however made a further formal complaint to me last Tuesday, and after a number of texts and phone calls to Ann during which time the boyfriend did not depart, last Friday I had to write an email to Ann asking her to make sure that house rules are obeyed and that her boyfriend only stays two nights a fortnight. I did not get a reply.

Betsy went away for the weekend but when she arrived back last night the boyfriend was there and he was still there this morning. She is now dreading going back home this evening, and it is my understanding that he has now stayed there for 11 consecutive nights. Betsy is now asking me what she should do if he is still there this evening.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to resolve this?

OP posts:
Baubles2020 · 15/03/2021 21:34

You’re letting one tenant dictate to the entire house... your house in fact. Why you haven’t gone round there to tell her straight is beyond me

ArcheryAnnie · 15/03/2021 21:36

And even if it takes 6 months to evict Ann, the sooner you start, the sooner she will be out.

You know she's a bad tenant. She doesn't give a shit about your rules, or the tenancy agreement she signed up to. Out she goes, even if it takes a long time. Start now.

JustLyra · 15/03/2021 21:37

@Aha85

Presumably it is an HMO OP if you have 4 girls there. How many can you actually have before it's overcrowded? Sounds like Charlotte and Daisy want to move their boyfriends in too.
Anymore than 4 and the registration and licensing are very different.

@FirstAvenue You are massively setting yourself up for trouble here.

You are knowingly breaching HMO rules by having 5 people staying there. You also haven’t checked this guy’s right to rent or anything.

Stressedmummyof4 · 15/03/2021 21:37

Op do you not live anywhere near your property? The only reason I am asking is poor Betsy has been in contact with you all day asking for help with the situation and by this time of night you still haven't went over to see her and sort the info it's all batting back emails and texts.

I feel awfully sorry for her, she must feel pretty abandoned. Not to mention teamed up on now that Ann has sweet talked the other housemates into 'changing the house rules'. I'm afraid that more than likely by not dealing with it you will probably loose Betsy and you could end up with your tenants ruling your house and end up in a tight mess!

You should be standing firm, if able too travel to the house and keep to your rules remember you put them there for a reason. You could potentially end up with all tenets having their dps move in so long as they don't sit in the living room.

SeptemberAlexandra · 15/03/2021 21:38

I feel so sorry for Betsy. This bothers her enough to contact you and her feelings are being trampled on.

An agreement between the tenants is irrelevant and Ann is running rings around you. You are the landlord. Enforce the correct boundaries and support your tenant. She didn’t sign up for this. Issue the required notices to Ann and evict her. Make it clear tonight that you will be doing this.

radioband · 15/03/2021 21:39

Surely it’s unfair that he is staying there all the time rent free? Yet he is dictating how things work? Ring 101 and get advice off the police. I think HMO didn’t work the same way as a sole tenancy? You can start the eviction process, it’s only the bailiffs visit that is on hold, the court will still process it and hopefully it doesn’t get to the bailiffs point.

JustLyra · 15/03/2021 21:40

@radioband

Surely it’s unfair that he is staying there all the time rent free? Yet he is dictating how things work? Ring 101 and get advice off the police. I think HMO didn’t work the same way as a sole tenancy? You can start the eviction process, it’s only the bailiffs visit that is on hold, the court will still process it and hopefully it doesn’t get to the bailiffs point.
The notice period is 6 months atm
Cherrysoup · 15/03/2021 21:47

Anne is a liar and needs calling out. I suggest you go round. The other housemates don’t get to make up new house rules which undermine yours. Betsy feels unsafe/uncomfortable, this was not what she signed up for. Give Anne notice and tell her the bf will be removed for unlawful occupation.

SeptemberAlexandra · 15/03/2021 21:50

If you don’t enforce your boundaries with Ann it gives the green light for Charlotte and Daisy to do the same also.

NoSquirrels · 15/03/2021 21:56

@FirstAvenue

Not the best twist, but Ann, Charlotte and Daisy have got together with some proposed amended house rules. They are happy to agree that guests can't spend time in the communal areas. That way Betsy avoids direct contact with any male guests and hopefully feels less uneasy in her own home. Ann has again confirmed to me that her boyfriend lives elsewhere and works elsewhere and won't be staying overnight during the week.
Fine. Seems at least useful in the short term that Ann’s BF won’t be in the communal areas.

I would still serve Ann notice - you really do have to now, at this juncture.

And expect Betsy to move out.

Lesson learned for all of you.

OP, I’d rethink the HMO situation if I were you, and look to move to letting to an established friendship
group, perhaps 2 sets of couples. This is a situation that can easily recur and you have no recourse to dealing with it effectively.

toocold54 · 15/03/2021 21:57

I would agree he shouldn't be there during lockdown, however normally you cannot dictate every other weekend etc , your tenants have the right to have visitors upto three nights a week

This is true.
It may be up to the other housemates to come to an agreement that it is weekends only.

NoSquirrels · 15/03/2021 21:59

Loads of posters on this thread saying effectively “It’s not right or fair Betsy is left in a bad situation not of her making” are right, morally and emotionally, but legally OP can do nothing and has no power to change this for Betsy.

As in many situations in life, what’s “right” is not always what’s possible.

Jalfreziqueen · 15/03/2021 22:00

I would give Ann the required six months notice and tell the boyfriend he is not a tenant and ask him to leave immediately as he is trespassing or something. Good luck and poor Betsy,

DifficultBloodyWoman · 15/03/2021 22:01

You are the landlord and you have a tenant who is requesting your help. Be a decent person and act on it quickly before you lose a good tenant.

  1. Call a house meeting. It has come to your attention that there is one man routinely overstaying his welcome. This is against house rules. This may be upsetting to other tenants. This is causing an increase in bills which may be reflected in their rent. This is making the house non-compliant with HMO rules which may result in the council becoming involved and everyone being evicted. You would consider suing the tenant and guest if that were to happen
  1. It is to stop now. Altering the house rules during a tenancy will not happen because a) you would have to increase the rent b) risk coercion of other tenants and c) still be non compliant with HMO rules.
  1. Future landlord references will be based on what happens from now on. They can be glowing or confirm that someone was evicted/sued and explain why.

The above is is designed to get the other girls your side a d away from Ann. Peer pressure works. They won’t want to risk eviction or an increase in their rent because of Ann’s sex life.

If Ann objects, repeat her text messages to her (and all the others) - on (date) you said he wasn’t staying over, on (date) you said he was but not that often, on (date) you said you wanted to change the rules so he could stay over.

The outline above is harsh. But you have no reason to suck up to Ann. Why would you care if she thinks you are a bitch. You have her deposit if she causes any damage and also the courts if she causes more damage than her deposit. It is unlikely to come to that.

Also - for an HMO, I think you need to serve a section 8 notice. Because of COVID, there is a six month notice period however it is less for antisocial behaviour. This would fall within the scope of antisocial behaviour.

BoffinMum · 15/03/2021 22:02

Landlord here, serve her notice for breach of contract, this can't go on and it isn't going to get any better. He's effectively a kind of squatter and you need to go in hard and use the law to sort this out as fast as possible. As you say, bailiffs can't go in but all the other usual legal things can happen and tenants usually move on pretty quickly after they have received the necessary paperwork and they know you mean business. Have you got legal expenses insurance btw?

NovemberR · 15/03/2021 22:03

If I were Betsy I'd be tempted to stop paying my rent at this point.

Because you're not going to be able to do anything about it, and you're not going to be able to evict me in the next few months. I'd be looking for somewhere else to live and I'd be saving up the rent money I should be paying you as my deposit on a place where I didn't feel vulnerable and where the landlord didn't ignore issues I repeatedly raised.

bigdecisionstomake · 15/03/2021 22:03

@NoSquirrels

Loads of posters on this thread saying effectively “It’s not right or fair Betsy is left in a bad situation not of her making” are right, morally and emotionally, but legally OP can do nothing and has no power to change this for Betsy.

As in many situations in life, what’s “right” is not always what’s possible.

This is a 100% accurate summary of the situation.

OP has no power to do anything except serve notice which at the current time, due to Covid restrictions, will mean a minimum of 6 months and a maximum of who knows how long before there is any guarantee of a resolution.

MrsElijahMikaelson1 · 15/03/2021 22:04

Get shot ASAP

NoSquirrels · 15/03/2021 22:04

@Cherrysoup

Anne is a liar and needs calling out. I suggest you go round. The other housemates don’t get to make up new house rules which undermine yours. Betsy feels unsafe/uncomfortable, this was not what she signed up for. Give Anne notice and tell her the bf will be removed for unlawful occupation.
Ann may be a liar but the OP can’t do anything about it even if she is.

The other housemates CAN ‘make up their own rules’ if they want to. The OP cannot insist in any legal way that her house rules are enforced over rules the flatmates agree to between themselves.

Betsy feeling uncomfortable because this was not what she signed up for is absolutely awful and regrettable and we all sympathise but her only recourse is to look to move. You can change things within your own control, you mostly cannot change other people’s behaviour.

OP should give Ann notice but has no recourse to removing the BF as ‘unreasonable behaviour’.

GetLost · 15/03/2021 22:05

I feel for Betsy, she must be feeling really uncomfortable with all this. Could you get confirmation from her if he's still there tomorrow and nip across to tell him to leave? Anne is doing what she wants probably because she knows about Covid eviction rules. The Ring doorbell is a good idea provided they can't bypass the front door.

GladAllOver · 15/03/2021 22:06

This man is not a tenant. He's not included in any part of any tenancy agreement.
He's a squatter, and he has no right to stay there.

Original poster
FirstAvenue · 15/03/2021 22:07

For those asking, I live several hours drive away. Ann has said she is going to leave soon, but my priority tonight is Betsy's safety. I have read all the replies but I really don't think a big drama tonight is going to help anyone.

With the other girls all now being aware of the issue I genuinely don't think Betsy is in any immediate danger. The suggested new "rule" is in addition to the existing rules. I've said I will respond in the morning. That will also give me the opportunity to see whether Ann's boyfriend does go indeed home tonight. The Police 101 number is a good idea.

OP posts:
bigdecisionstomake · 15/03/2021 22:07

@GladAllOver

This man is not a tenant. He's not included in any part of any tenancy agreement. He's a squatter, and he has no right to stay there.
He's not a squatter, he's an invited guest of a tenant - there is a massive difference. This isn't altered because a set of houserules say he's not allowed to be there.
Fooooooooood · 15/03/2021 22:11

I’d be livid that someone was exposing me to COVID, let alone the inconvenience of having someone’s boyfriend squatting in my shared house...

NoSquirrels · 15/03/2021 22:13

@FirstAvenue

For those asking, I live several hours drive away. Ann has said she is going to leave soon, but my priority tonight is Betsy's safety. I have read all the replies but I really don't think a big drama tonight is going to help anyone.

With the other girls all now being aware of the issue I genuinely don't think Betsy is in any immediate danger. The suggested new "rule" is in addition to the existing rules. I've said I will respond in the morning. That will also give me the opportunity to see whether Ann's boyfriend does go indeed home tonight. The Police 101 number is a good idea.

You do need the other 2 tenants to side with you/Betsy in this, and so you must remain fair but firm.

Drama doesn’t serve you, because you have no absolute authority. The best case scenario is a) Ann leaves ASAP taking annoying boyfriend with her and b) other tenants and Betsy agree between themselves that any other prospective tenants understand the rules. To which end they should be involved with new tenant interviews if possible.

But really honestly truly if I were you I’d rethink the letting situation because in an HMO there is no way to police this stuff effectively and legally from a distance. Letting to an established group allows for less hassle, usually.