Katie Price wants to stop trollling and receives abuse in response

[Doyoumind]

Katie Price is trending on twitter because she wants anyone using social media to need ID to sign up so online abuse can be prevented. I can understand her point. I can also see why people would be against this.

But in response there are thousands of abusive and misogynistic tweets. It's kind of ironic. And proof that for all the recent virtue signalling, it's still absolutely fine to be vile to a woman.

I know a few people who can't drive, and can't afford to travel abroad so have no need of either a passport or driving licence. Why should they be unable to access social media?!

People who need it can get an ID card for £15, apparently.

www.citizencard.com/

Unless you make it worldwide, there would be no point as someone would just use a VPN to spoof their location and get around the requirement of having to use ID

But social media sites could block users based on location then. In UK, need ID, not in UK, can't comment on this users profile.

This will never happen. Social media is run by the USA and their constitution protects free speech. Unless the USA passed a federal law demanding ID (which will never happen) this won’t happen. Our government never stands up to the USA.

I'm always amazed that when any innovation is proposed, people will announce random reasons why it won't work, based on the assumption that nothing else could possibly change to make it work. It's literally as if in imagining the future there are only two inputs, the way things are, the proposed variation. There's zero use of their own brain to iron out any incompatibilities, however obvious the solutions.

If they want a doughnut, and it's out of reach, they'd get up and walk to it. If I told them I wanted a doughnut, and it was out of reach, they'd tell me I'd have to go without, as it was out of reach. Somehow it not being their objective to unite me with the doughnut makes it impossible for them to see the blindingly obvious solution.

Also it would be piss easy to forge ID.

@sunflowersandbuttercups

This is about the UK. Don't make it about elsewhere

Okay. So what if you'd happily uploaded your ID and the site got hacked? Or the government changed the law and you suddenly found yourself banned for your sexuality or skin colour?

Just because this is the UK doesn't mean it wouldn't happen in the future.

This exactly.

You only have to look at South Korea and the RNNs that got sold by company employees and used for money laundering. It wasn’t even hackers! It’s fucking madness to even think linking any sort of government ID to the Internet will help safety.

This will never happen. Social media is run by the USA and their constitution protects free speech. Unless the USA passed a federal law demanding ID (which will never happen) this won’t happen. Our government never stands up to the USA.

Mumsnet deletes threads and posts it doesn't like, regardless of the country of the poster. Do you think Mumsnet owners will be extradited and tried in the USA if they delete a post by an American user?

My guess is that any individual social media platform can restrict who can post and what they can say in any way it likes. Anonymous free speech is not prevented, as people are free to speak elsewhere.

Good try, but I think this is a non-issue.

Also it would be piss easy to forge ID

It's possible to give the right people access to bank accounts on-line, but you reckon it's not possible to reliably link a person to a social media account?

People are largely unable or unwilling to lie in order to obtain someone else's money, but they will routinely succeed in doing so in order to abuse a stranger online?

I don’t disagree with SM having ID checks in place. I welcome it in fact, but there is a significant amount of people who don’t have a driving licence or passport, just because they can’t afford them or can’t afford to use them. I have to check ID’s a lot for my job and loads of people don’t have anything apart from a birth certificate. If the SM ID check becomes the norm for other websites that could mean poor people are discriminated against, just for being poor.

@sunflowersandbuttercups

This is about the UK. Don't make it about elsewhere

Okay. So what if you'd happily uploaded your ID and the site got hacked? Or the government changed the law and you suddenly found yourself banned for your sexuality or skin colour?

Just because this is the UK doesn't mean it wouldn't happen in the future.

Whole lot of paranoia here, I agree if you want to say something unpleasant then you should be identifiable. Just look at the nasty vitriol directed at Katie

@littlebillie it’s not paranoia about hackers. It’s literally happened in other countries where your official government ID number is required to be linked to your online presence, sites have been hacked and identities stolen.

Would you trust Mumsnet with your official government ID knowing their awful history of hacking and data breeches?

More needs to be done regards to targeted harassment but removing anonymity isn’t the answer.

How would people feel about using ID to sign up for Mumsnet? So many people sign up using seperate emails with false details so no one can find out who they are.

Personally I'd be fine to use ID but understand the reasons why some would not want to.

@Grenlei

It's rather a privileged statement to say you don't know anyone without a passport or driving licence. I know a few people who can't drive, and can't afford to travel abroad so have no need of either a passport or driving licence. Why should they be unable to access social media?!

As for Katie Price, it's all very well her bleating on about the conduct of others, but is she also going to be held to account for her own frequently vile and misogynistic social media comments? Or is it a case of 'do as I say and not as I do'?

1. You can use a provisional license as ID, I do

1. Everyone has one OR the other

1. Social media is not a human right

Social media could be linked the .gov verify service

There are ways around this, and the powers that be could do something about this. But sadly the will isn't there.

Personally I've always had a rule not to write anything online that I'd not publish in the newspaper so ID wouldn't trouble me.
Accountability is needed.

@sunflowersandbuttercups

This is about the UK. Don't make it about elsewhere

Okay. So what if you'd happily uploaded your ID and the site got hacked? Or the government changed the law and you suddenly found yourself banned for your sexuality or skin colour?

Just because this is the UK doesn't mean it wouldn't happen in the future.

This.

Don’t rush to sign away your liberty because a small minority of social media users say nasty things.

Anybody who commits a criminal offence - which is not the same as ‘saying nasty things’ - could be traced through their IP address if necessary.

Don’t make it so that people keen to take offence have the power to seek revenge on whoever has offended them by demanding their identity from the site. I’m not talking about Katie Price and her son. I’m not even talking about trolls in particular. I’m talking about revenge being sought after an unpopular opinion is expressed, e.g. where somebody says that trans women are not women. Don’t tell me that any legislation aimed at discouraging trolling, however well-intentioned, would not be used for this purpose.

Look at Graham Linehan’s experience and think hard. Would you like the same treatment visited on others, after their identities are ferreted out using new anti-trolling legislation as a means to an end?

The keyboard warriors who want to shut down this petition seem to be precisely the people who shouldn't be on the internet.

Anime avatars, sexual fetishists, self confessed MAPs and gender trolls.

Never even thought about that . Who would actually trust Facebook to store their passport details. I certainly wouldn’t .

@RandomLondoner

This will never happen. Social media is run by the USA and their constitution protects free speech. Unless the USA passed a federal law demanding ID (which will never happen) this won’t happen. Our government never stands up to the USA.

Mumsnet deletes threads and posts it doesn't like, regardless of the country of the poster. Do you think Mumsnet owners will be extradited and tried in the USA if they delete a post by an American user?

My guess is that any individual social media platform can restrict who can post and what they can say in any way it likes. Anonymous free speech is not prevented, as people are free to speak elsewhere.

Good try, but I think this is a non-issue.

You spectacularly missed my point. Outfits like Twitter and Facebook think they are bound only by US laws. Look at how Martin Lewis had to spend a lot of his own money to prevent bogus ads featuring his picture appearing on Facebook.

A lot of what is considered trolling here would be protected by free speech in the US, which is all twitter and facebook care about, and our government won't pass even the most minor laws to upset them.

Of course MN could demand ID, but it would be really difficult to prevent forgeries - it's easy to doctor digital pictures - so do you think they'd demand you send the original in the post?

It's unworkable and a ridiculous idea.

@RandomLondoner

Also it would be piss easy to forge ID

It's possible to give the right people access to bank accounts on-line, but you reckon it's not possible to reliably link a person to a social media account?

People are largely unable or unwilling to lie in order to obtain someone else's money, but they will routinely succeed in doing so in order to abuse a stranger online?

Online banking security is expensive and time consuming, and fraud isn't unknown.

In most cases banks require actual sight of original documents to set up an account - do you really expect Mumsnet, Facebook etc to set up offices to inspect your ID? Or are you happy to mail it to them?
Otherwise it would be piss easy to forge a picture and upload/send.

By the way - just because I think requiring ID for social media accounts is stupid and unworkable does not mean I approve of people trolling Katie Price or anyone else.

That's a societal issue.

My post wasn't even about the rights or wrongs of her proposal, if you recall.

It was about a torrent disgusting abuse being directed at Katie Price. People are responding to her with exactly the kind of abuse she is talking about.

In the last week, people online have been quick to jump on the 'end violence against women' bandwagon and yet it's just more of the same vile abuse.

We have created a system where people aren't held accountable.

@RandomLondoner

I'm always amazed that when any innovation is proposed, people will announce random reasons why it won't work, based on the assumption that nothing else could possibly change to make it work. It's literally as if in imagining the future there are only two inputs, the way things are, the proposed variation. There's zero use of their own brain to iron out any incompatibilities, however obvious the solutions.

If they want a doughnut, and it's out of reach, they'd get up and walk to it. If I told them I wanted a doughnut, and it was out of reach, they'd tell me I'd have to go without, as it was out of reach. Somehow it not being their objective to unite me with the doughnut makes it impossible for them to see the blindingly obvious solution.

OK, doughnuts aside, how do you propose all social media sites inspect your ID? Would you send it to them? Would you take it to their office and show them? Use that service for a tenner where the Post Office looks at it and confirms you look like the person on the docs? How?

While I am by no means her biggest fan at all, she is absolutely right.

Anywhere that you can attack another person verbally, you should be able to be held accountable for those attacks. It's not about censorship, as people can and should be able to voice an opinion, but once it oversteps, they need to be held accountable for that.

I don't know another person who doesn't have one form of ID, the only people who seem to be opposed to this are the ones who are vile to others.

@Doyoumind

My post wasn't even about the rights or wrongs of her proposal, if you recall.

It was about a torrent disgusting abuse being directed at Katie Price. People are responding to her with exactly the kind of abuse she is talking about.

In the last week, people online have been quick to jump on the 'end violence against women' bandwagon and yet it's just more of the same vile abuse.

We have created a system where people aren't held accountable.

You're right - the system doesn't hold people accountable - and that's because the vast majority of social media is run from the US.