To be angry at the frenzy caused by others last night

[BarometerTV]

I think it was utterly disrespectful. We are in lockdown and it was not the right time for a protest. I agree with a quiet, respectful, socially distanced space to grieve - which is what appeared to happen during the day.

The only thing that should have mattered at this stage was the family’s wishes. They requested that the meeting/ vigil/protest did not go ahead

NO THEY DID NOT. Fuck's sake stop spreading proven lies! What is wrong with you!

I think that this is something that those vociferously defending the vigil haven’t addressed, unless I’ve missed it? It appears disrespectful that they haven’t TBH.

Yes, it has been addressed, several times.

The family DID NOT request the vigil not go ahead, in fact the opposite, they thanked and praised those who attended the vigil.

Someone on Facebook created and started to spread an outright lie claiming the family had said they didn't want the vigil to go ahead, a simple google search would prove it's a lie, but many people have blindly repeated that lie without question.

It's disgusting and shameful that people are abusing Sarah's family by making up lies about them, in order to attack women.

Okay, I apologise. That was a very low thing to do, spreading rumours like that.

Thank you, I appreciate that.

I'm sorry for yelling, but it's just so frustrating seeing how easily fake news can spread.

@Dorsetdays

What is your ulterior motive on this thread?

I've watched you from the start take the most dogmatic stance that police=good, everyone attending protest=bad

You claimed a first hand account, that then turned out to be a second hand account that then turned out to be possibly even be at a different protest? But still you dogmatically believe every single social media, third hand post and refuse to listen to any of the accounts of posters who were there.

Why is this?

Why are you digging your heels in so much, when a lot of what you are posting is then proven to be untrue?

The 26 assaults claim by you is now being puffed up and up with each repeating of it, and is presumably the new hill you will die on, until you find another social media post (unsourced) which fits with your confirmation bias.

You are possibly the most bizarre poster on this thread, and there have been some weird posters.

Probably a silly question but were you there @rosetylersbiggun?

I think it’s pretty obvious on this thread which posters have participated in marches and protests and have seen police action first hand.

The only thing that should have mattered at this stage was the family’s wishes. They requested that the meeting/ vigil/protest did not go ahead

I think that this is something that those vociferously defending the vigil haven’t addressed, unless I’ve missed it? It appears disrespectful that they haven’t TBH.

You've missed the fact that Sarah's family didnt say that at all.

Alsohuman - yes, I was on the bandstand (but not involved in any protesting and never even heard of Sisters Uncut or any of the other groups).

I wrote up a report on this thread, p8:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4191342-hundreds-defy-ban-to-attend-clapham-vigil

I haven't been on any kind of March or demonstration since the late 1980s , but when I did go as a student I found that the police often behaved quite badly.

@Mittens030869

*The only thing that should have mattered at this stage was the family’s wishes. They requested that the meeting/ vigil/protest did not go ahead*

I think that this is something that those vociferously defending the vigil haven’t addressed, unless I’ve missed it? It appears disrespectful that they haven’t TBH.

I’m certainly not defending the police, I think their actions were disgraceful.

As shared upthread, the family did not request the vigil be cancelled. They in fact thanked and defended people for attended afterwards.

Gappyvalley. I’m able to engage on any thread I choose too thanks.

My account was directly from my niece who was there but feel free to try and diminish that if it suits your narrative.

I’ve also said that there was fault on both sides so in no way have I tried to say what you’re suggesting but, again that doesn’t suit your narrative so let’s just ignore that shall we.

I think what happened was a disgrace. There were people there who clearly had no intention of attending a respectful vigil. Why else did they arrive with placards, with loudspeakers, with pre printed cards offering legal help. Protestors who claimed in interview to have ‘only been there to quietly pay their respects’ are then shown on camera shouting obscenities at the police and blatantly breaching covid restrictions. Refusing to move on and then expressing total surprise they were arrested.

I’m sure they were very probably in the minority but the number of people on this thread prepared to support those is simply astonishing. The ‘police were asking for it’ statements are disgraceful and yes, I’m prepared to defend that because those people were not representing me and never will.

Refusing to move on and then expressing total surprise they were arrested.

They couldn't leave since they were being kettled.

Why are you ignoring the fact it was police who told women to go onto the bandstand?

Why are you ignoring that police refused to arrest the violent men but targeted women sitting quietly on the floor?

I don't care that your niece was there, unless your niece was right at the front or on the bandstand there's no physical way she can have seen any of that. And if she was on the bandstand then according to you she was an agitator disobeying police and breaking Covid restrictions so maybe you should have a word with her.

@Dorsetdays

So you were able to clarify with your niece which location she was at?

Because when I asked you previously if she was at the main vigil area, or the windmill area where the male protesters were, given that you claim witnessed male protesters, you didn’t actually know.

So I’m afraid if your account actually relates to an entirely separate location to the one being discussed on the thread, it does diminish your account

Baffling that you can’t see that but not surprising seeing how belligerent you’re being.

@rosetylersbiggun

Thank you for that post. Actually, I used to live in London and vividly remember the murder of Rachel Nickell on Wimbledon Common (I was a student in Wimbledon then). What happened to Sarah was so similar to that.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

Yes, I’ve already had that pointed out to me and apologised for unknowingly repeating fake news.

Read my posts again and perhaps you’ll understand? I never said my niece was at the bandstand, I simply said she was at the vigil and chose to leave after the 6pm moment as she felt uncomfortable that there was a change in atmosphere. By that she meant people arriving with placards, an increase in shouting etc which she just felt wasn’t appropriate. She’d paid her respects and simply went home to light a candle on her doorstep.

Therefore she wasn’t there during the whole event and I’ve never stated any differently.

Doesn’t diminish what she saw or felt. But, again, her story doesn’t fit your narrative so let’s just discount it entirely. People can have different views you know, even about the same event.

Hang on, so you are confirming she wasn't at the bandstand..?

[quote rosetylersbiggun]Alsohuman - yes, I was on the bandstand (but not involved in any protesting and never even heard of Sisters Uncut or any of the other groups).

I wrote up a report on this thread, p8:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4191342-hundreds-defy-ban-to-attend-clapham-vigil[/quote]
Thanks, I missed that somehow. Off to read it.

I’m with you 100% @LucieStar - great posts.

I read this from further up thread:
www.spiked-online.com/2021/03/13/this-is-not-what-sarah-would-have-wanted/

@Mittens030869 - did you read the article above? Written by a friend who knew Sarah.

That article from The Guardian is unbelievably biased (no surprise there)

Also a very inaccurate generalisation in the title. My trust in the UK police hasn't been eroded only because there have been a few incidents (as there are bound to be in any institution where there are humans involved)

Institutional misogyny 'erodes women's trust in UK police

Doesn’t diminish what she saw or felt.

Well considering you admit she wasn't even at the protest, yes it does substantially diminish what she "saw"!

There was no shouting until after police arrested the women reading poetry, which happened around 6.15pm. The only banners at that point had messages against male violence.

None of the ACAB banners or similar banners showed up until far later.

So if your niece was there only briefly and left shortly after 6pm, then she did not witness any shouting or inappropriate placards, and left long before it turned into a protest.

[quote FerrisWheelTrain]@Mittens030869 - did you read the article above? Written by a friend who knew Sarah.[/quote]
Presumably her family knew her too. They have been publicly vocal in support of the vigil:

Aunt Andrea Everard was reported to have said: "It’s not right that women don’t feel safe on the street

All they were doing was showing support for Sarah and other women victims of appalling crime.

I hope Sarah’s death can bring about some positive change.

Husband Nick, Sarah’s uncle, was said to have thanked well-wishers and said the support had been 'overwhelming.'

It can certainly be a tactic to push or otherwise aggravate protestors

Can someone explain why do you think the police would want to aggravate protestors on purpose? What would be their aim?

@Dorsetdays

Several times in this thread, you dismissed my eyewitness account as 'not what your niece saw' and 'only one version of events' and told me her version 'holds more store than a random on the internet'

My version said it was entirely peaceful and mostly silent while it was light. At 6pm, there was a minutes silence, and then someone reading out the names of murdered women. I posted a picture of the placards I saw.

This is the same time as your niece was there (if she even was at the bandstand, which isn't clear), and is pretty much the same account as hers.

So why do you then try and cast doubt on my account after that point, given your niece was no longer there? Why claim my version 'didn't fit with hers' given she was now at home?

I think the only reason is because it doesn't fit with the narrative you've chosen to believe, and are too belligerent to deviate from, even in the face of video evidence, eye witness accounts and press reports.