To be angry at the frenzy caused by others last night

[BarometerTV]

I think it was utterly disrespectful. We are in lockdown and it was not the right time for a protest. I agree with a quiet, respectful, socially distanced space to grieve - which is what appeared to happen during the day.

I'm trying to widen the debate to places in the north, where serious crimes are still being covered up and I want to know why the north doesn't see these same middle class left wing women activists protesting here

"Middle class left wing activists" held marches under the "Reclaim the Night" umbrella in the 1970s, when women in the north of Englan were being told to stay in at night because of the Yorkshire Ripper. In London, too, I was among them.

"Middle class left wing activists" held marches under the "Reclaim the Night" umbrella in the 1970s, when women in the north of Englan were being told to stay in at night because of the Yorkshire Ripper. In London, too, I was among them.

Yes I know, I remember it and have commented on it before on the feminist board but why not now when we have so many of these gang related crown court cases?

Why aren't womens groups doing something in the north about this now?

I'm trying to widen the debate to places in the north, where serious crimes are still being covered up and I want to know why the north doesn't see these same middle class left wing women activists protesting here

What's your basis for calling these people middle class and left wing other than your own assumptions and stereotyping? And I'd say most people protest in areas relatively local to them. London protests will always be bigger because more people live there. If 1% of people in London went to a protest in London and 1% of people in Manchester did the same of course the London one is going to be bigger because it has a higher population. Doesn't mean people care about the women in London more, it just means there are more people in London to start with. You can't criticise the women in the south for not protesting in the north when they live in the south and the travel time in vastly different, plus the women in the north don't appear to be protesting there either, maybe we need to encourage more engagement with women's rights issues in these northern areas without protests to encourage the local people to protest these cover ups.

It’s a strange angle because the claim seems to be not enough is don’t by middle class London leftists.

And yet you could say, why no representation of women from the North? I can’t work out whether Flax is more of less bothered about that.

It’s the logic of “what about”

@Flaxmeadow

"Middle class left wing activists" held marches under the "Reclaim the Night" umbrella in the 1970s, when women in the north of Englan were being told to stay in at night because of the Yorkshire Ripper. In London, too, I was among them.

Yes I know, I remember it and have commented on it before on the feminist board but why not now when we have so many of these gang related crown court cases?

Why aren't womens groups doing something in the north about this now?

I'm ashamed to say that I didn't know there were still trials going on. I don't know why they haven't had a higher profile in the media, the first few certainly did.

We are in the midst of a global pandemic and in the UK we are in lockdown. They should not have held their 'vigil' in my humble opinion. The police were awful but the event should never have happened.

@LakieLady

I haven’t led any kind of sheltered life. I was at Greenham and I’ve seen how the police treat women. The police were on top of that woman, there was a boot next to her head. Why did it take three people to “pick up” - ffs - a tiny woman? Jesus, the bloody evidence is there and some people are so biased they try and deny what’s right in their face

The police at Greenham were a disgrace. I'd seen police get rough with protestors before, and had been on the receiving end of it at other protests, but I'd never seen anything like the level of brutality that I did at Greenham. The fact that this was at a women-only protest made me think that there was an element of misogyny involved.

This weekend's events made me think that little has changed since then.

The police at Greenham were deliberately provocative. A policewoman stood looking me in the eye while she removed baby clothes, etc from the fence and threw them on the ground. She was inviting me to go for her. Fortunately two of my friends grabbed an arm each and walked me away. It was the classic “She’s not worth it”.

I'm ashamed to say that I didn't know there were still trials going on. I don't know why they haven't had a higher profile in the media, the first few certainly did

There have been about 50 or more trials in the last few years, many of them in Greater Manchester and West Yorkshire. Some towns have seen at least 4 trials. It gets reported in the local press all the time. Infact I don't think there is any one day when there isn't a trial happening somewhere in GM or WY

Living here I just feel so let down by womens groups and feminists.

Doesn’t the North have these groups? You don’t sound keen on middle class London posh lefties: surely the locals know the issues better?

boredbuttercup

But these womens groups are supposed to be national groups. I see them organising online all the time

Doesn't mean people care about the women in London more, it just means there are more people in London to start with

Approximately 6.5 million people live in Greater Manchester and West/South Yorkshire. Where the majority of these gang crime are happening

Why are womens groups and feminists still ignoring it? Why are they not discussing it?

Well you are closer to it than us. What’s your view Flax?

Copied- This post is from a female police officer who was there-

Tonight’s Virgil for Sarah. A female officers point of view..

It started with mainly only female officers overlooking a civil vigil. When numbers grew and social distancing seized more officers were called.
When police officers tried to crowd control and remove people from stamping on flowers for Sarah they refused. Then it kicked off
Then I saw people being arrested and my colleagues being assaulted when trying to transport said prisoner.
Then I saw our vehicles being vandalised with spray with the word ACAB and a mirror being smashed.
Then I thought what would Sarah’s family think about this?
Then I saw and heard my colleagues being abused. They were called murderes, rapists, a female colleague was told it should have been her. And we were told to arrest each other. This is not ok.
Sarah’s family and friends have been so gracious under the circumstances. I do not believe they would want this to happen. If it was me I would not want this to happen. Stop think and be civil we are all humans and we all are angry at what happened. We do not need more violence.
I am a woman. I am a police officer. I am very proud of being both. This week has me exhausted. Physically from the job and mentally by all this.
We are not at fault for what happened because if we knew we would have done what we could to stop it.
To finalise this rant, to my colleagues: I am proud of you. You were insulted beyond what we are used to. We stand by our uniform, we’re proud to carry this warrant card so we can uphold the great office of Constable. Thank you for being there today hope you are all ok. 💙

Yes. And then “when the police tried to crowd control” it went wrong.

Funny that. The police should have stepped back as they managed to yesterday.

And the Met have some very difficult questions to answer about their culture of looking after women, both in and outside the force. I notice they are very quiet on that and their unlawful tactics.

They have been criticised particularly because of their effort to claim authority - this article by an officer doesn’t take it further.

@Flaxmeadow From what I have learned so far in life... If you find yourself wondering/asking aloud why no-one is "doing something" about a particular issue..... the most effective way forward is to start doing something yourself. Have you tried organising any comapigns/reaching out to women's groups/starting your own movement?

I wonder where todays Monday Covid briefing/press conference has disappeared to. They have been every Monday since the 4th Jan.
Fucking cowards.

Oh come on now. We've got pages and threads of women being castigated for wanting to attend a vigil in their local park, and the accusations that some might have had the insidious agenda of exploiting a vigil for a woman murdered by a policeman to... protest male violence against women. And now we're being castigated for not organising protests against male violence in other parts of the country?

Why is it the responsibility of Southern women to organise protests in Manchester? Surely it's responsibility of women actually living in the Manchester area? Flax, what's stopping you and your friends taking action and forming groups?

Are Northern women so helpless they can't possibly do anything unless Southern women organise it for them?

@DdraigGoch

Copied- This post is from a female police officer who was there-

Tonight’s Virgil for Sarah. A female officers point of view..

It started with mainly only female officers overlooking a civil vigil. When numbers grew and social distancing seized more officers were called.
When police officers tried to crowd control and remove people from stamping on flowers for Sarah they refused. Then it kicked off
Then I saw people being arrested and my colleagues being assaulted when trying to transport said prisoner.
Then I saw our vehicles being vandalised with spray with the word ACAB and a mirror being smashed.
Then I thought what would Sarah’s family think about this?
Then I saw and heard my colleagues being abused. They were called murderes, rapists, a female colleague was told it should have been her. And we were told to arrest each other. This is not ok.
Sarah’s family and friends have been so gracious under the circumstances. I do not believe they would want this to happen. If it was me I would not want this to happen. Stop think and be civil we are all humans and we all are angry at what happened. We do not need more violence.
I am a woman. I am a police officer. I am very proud of being both. This week has me exhausted. Physically from the job and mentally by all this.
We are not at fault for what happened because if we knew we would have done what we could to stop it.
To finalise this rant, to my colleagues: I am proud of you. You were insulted beyond what we are used to. We stand by our uniform, we’re proud to carry this warrant card so we can uphold the great office of Constable. Thank you for being there today hope you are all ok. 💙

Do you have the link to this please?

They were called murderes, rapists, a female colleague was told it should have been her.

Disgusting

@LucieStar

They were called murderes, rapists, a female colleague was told it should have been her.

Disgusting

I would like a link to this rant and where it came from!

@CuriousaboutSamphire - link please and did you read your last post???

It's really important that women don't turn on each other over this.
This is exactly what abusers and enablers (Govt) want.

Sarah Everard's murder was especially horrific from what we know.
Millions of girls & women around the world suffer daily fear, catcalls, groping, assault, rape & murder. 3 women a week are killed in the UK alone, 54,000 rapes a year are reported, God knows (literally perhaps) how many actually happen, then there are all the other assaults.

We MUST stand together on this, as 'divide and rule' really works :(
Male violence (intimidation in any form) is wrong & it's a huge & terrifying fight we are nowhere near winning yet.

[quote LexMitior]@CuriousaboutSamphire - link please and did you read your last post???[/quote]
God! What did I write? I was agreeing with you and pointing out that there was a lot going on then. I don't think anything I posted was obnoxious!

Sorry, I can't give you a single link, I trawled SM for a few hours.

Sorry but after Hillsborough i take that with a pinch of salt.

Oh fucking hell!!! I'll ask for that to be changed!

I C+P that to get a link to the arrested woman's name and the C+P obviously stuck!

Patsy Stevenson , FFS!
Shit!