To think the internet should be a little more controlled...

[jobhunter7]

It shouldn't be possible to access hardcore pornography so easily...
It shouldn't be so easy to troll people...
There should be more controls before things go live to the entire universe...

Well, if all sites start demanding identification I for one will be investing in a secure VPN, and the Dark Web will hit an incredible boom. Which will be fabulous for criminals of all kinds. But on the legit side, where nobody will want to go any more, everything will be just peachy. Won't it?

Well, if all sites start demanding identification I for one will be investing in a secure VPN, and the Dark Web will hit an incredible boom. Which will be fabulous for criminals of all kinds. But on the legit side, where nobody will want to go any more, everything will be just peachy. Won't it?

Why would you using the dark web benefit any criminal, unless, you were colluding with them in criminal activity? Please give me the scenario?

It wont be a case of nobody wanting to go anymore though, people will stamp their feet, vote against it in polls,,threaten to not use it, but ultimately some people use these sites to the point of addiction and would not want to miss out,so would do it in the end.

Yes it would be peachy if we could reduce teen suicides, poor metal health in people and fine and ban a load of vile, bullying cowardice trolls in the process.

Yes it would be peachy if we could reduce teen suicides, poor metal health in people and fine and ban a load of vile, bullying cowardice trolls in the process.

Yes, because handing over our ID to internet companies will magically make all those things go away. Like OP, you're very naive. Internet bullying is not the cause of teen suicide and mental ill health - that's a very simplistic take on society.

And of course internet companies never get hacked - right now, hackers can get a substantial amount of data on people. Imagine how rich their pickings would be if every post stored on a server was attached to a real ID with address information. Identity theft would be even more of a goldmine.

The Internet isn't the cause of bullying and trolling - people are. Sites can already ban posters, including previously banned ones. We don't need vast teams of legal experts picking over every post in case it contravenes the Malicious Communications Act - and don't even think about the amount of work that could be generated by malicious reports. You'd probably invent a whole new form of bullying and trolling right there.

Yes, because handing over our ID to internet companies will magically make all those things go away

Verifying who you are, yes, will help reduce the amount of suicides through bullying and trolling and the bad impact it had on peoples mental health. As cowards will not do it if they are at risk of being identified.

If you dont believe trolling and bullying go someway towards the rise in poor mental health, regardless of your view on the verification of people, then are illeducated on the subject of poor mental health and suicide in todays society.

Like OP, you're very naive

Thankfully as stated above, it is not I that is niave to the contributing factors to the ever increasing poor mental health of people

Internet bullying is not the cause of teen suicide and mental ill health - that's a very simplistic take on society

It is a fact that it is, not opinion, a well know fact.

And of course internet companies never get hacked - right now, hackers can get a substantial amount of data on people

Yes if someone did feel the need to hack your information they could already do so, this information is already stored "out there"

Imagine how rich their pickings would be if every post stored on a server was attached to a real ID with address information. Identity theft would be even more of a goldmine

That is already possible, this will not bring about anything new by having your data stored on line, it will be held just as securely as other existing bodies do.

The Internet isn't the cause of bullying and trolling - people are.

Oh no !!!! you didnt just say that 🤣🤣 so i suppose you are a "guns dont kill people, people kill people" thinker.

Sites can already ban posters, including previously banned ones. We don't need vast teams of legal experts picking over every post in case it contravenes the Malicious Communications Act - and don't even think about the amount of work that could be generated by malicious reports

Yes, exactly, you ban someone and they just set up again in another name and continue to abuse people, you have highlighted one of the issues. If you are concerned about workload, this is doing the same job over and over again banning the same person under many different guises.

You wouldn't need legal experts ??!! The law is already there to be followed
Noone has denied it would cost corporations money, but a cost that should be factored into their business model of runnining and ethical business. Like many many other industries

You'd probably invent a whole new form of bullying and trolling right there

Please could you explain what that would look like as it it making no sense just a sentence?

As previously asked, how is it going to help criminals on the dark web either?

You'd probably invent a whole new form of bullying and trolling right there

Please could you explain what that would look like as it it making no sense just a sentence?

Oh, come on. This is basic. Ever heard of abusive ex-spouses filing false social services reports against their exes so they have the stress of dealing with that? The same thing would happen online. It's simple. Go online, goad your ex into saying something vaguely contentious. Or just, hey, take offence. Make a complaint. Your ex gets contacted and checked out. Rinse, repeat. Lovely idea. Also applies to people you have fallen out with, classmates at school. The possibilities are endless.

Online bullying is certainly a contributing factor in teen suicide and self harm. Not contesting that. But it isn't the sole cause, and the research articles I have read do not suggest hardcore ID requirements as a solution but better teaching in schools to prevent bullying both face to face and online.

I am opposed to gun ownership, btw. But equating the Internet with firearms is comparing lemons and aardvarks.

Re criminals on the dark web - if you drive people onto the dark web with onerous ID requirements that limit freedom of expression and privacy, you're widening the pool of potential targets for them to exploit. Simple.

Ultimately, bullies are always going to find a way to bully. The solution is better parenting and better education, and a more effective application of current laws. You say the kind of things you want policed are already covered by law - fine. People have already been prosecuted for online hate speech as well - so by all means put more resources into policing the online sphere, but without further invading people's lives.

What freedom are you surrendering by authenticating who you are on a social media site ?
The information is already held and could already be hacked if someone wanted to do so, if these companies are made to have the same security, which most holding information do, I'm not seeing the difference.

MN don’t have my real name, they don’t know my details at all. In fact I use a junk email address for it. The reason is that they are a hacking target.
Again, let’s say a site like MN has to request ID, who is checking it? Who is authenticating it? How long will that check take?

Let’s imagine a new mum who, at 3 am wants some reassurance. Can she sign up and post to a parenting site that might be able to help her? No, she has to scrabble around finding suitable ID and then sending that off to some person who has to check it before she can post.

What ID will a teen who doesn’t have a passport or driving licence use?

Again, it won’t stop bullying or trolling. All it will mean is that once someone has noticed bullying they can tell them off, which they could do anyway. ID will change nothing and is easily forged, unless you suggest I post my driving license to every forum and message board I want to join.

Oh, come on. This is basic. Ever heard of abusive ex-spouses filing false social services reports against their exes so they have the stress of dealing with that? The same thing would happen online. It's simple. Go online, goad your ex into saying something vaguely contentious. Or just, hey, take offence. Make a complaint. Your ex gets contacted and checked out. Rinse, repeat. Lovely idea. Also applies to people you have fallen out with, classmates at school. The possibilities are endless.

You say a new form of bullying this isnt new,its been happening for years. I thought you said something new, ?? What is the new bullying being created?

We are not talking about contentious for the millionth time, we are talking about bullying and trolling.
No the possibilities are not endless, they need to be cases of bullying and trolling, not complaints 🙄

Online bullying is certainly a contributing factor in teen suicide and self harm. Not contesting that

So if there is a way to help that ever rising problem, the companies involved should be responsible in doing that.

But it isn't the sole cause

Noone suggested it was ??!!

research articles I have read do not suggest hardcore ID requirements as a solution but better teaching in schools to prevent bullying both face to face and online

Which articles have you read that argue that about hardcore ID requirements?
This is not only happening in classrooms and if everything could be resolved by better teaching we would have no crime. Sadly this doesnt happen, so we need things in place to prevent abuse to people.

I am opposed to gun ownership, btw. But equating the Internet with firearms is comparing lemons and aardvarks

No its not. It exactly the same in this conversation. The vehichle for the bullying is the social media sites, the vehicle for the killings are guns.
You cant accept the vehicle by blaming the person, if that was removed the action wouldnt happen. Exactly the same in principle.

Re criminals on the dark web - if you drive people onto the dark web with onerous ID requirements that limit freedom of expression and privacy, you're widening the pool of potential targets for them to exploit. Simple

Thats nonesense by the way, they are no more a target on the dark web than on the internet, plus in your version, noone can get to them on the dark web with no form ot verification so surely safer there ???

Ultimately, bullies are always going to find a way to bully. The solution is better parenting and better education, and a more effective application of current laws

But better parenting is not the only effective resolution, as it isnt working currently, its not like this bullying itself is a new thing, but the way you can happen now is. 24/7 in your home, there is no escape for some of these people and the individuals responsible need to be verified and dealt with.

You say the kind of things you want policed are already covered by law - fine. People have already been prosecuted for online hate speech as well - so by all means put more resources into policing the online sphere, but without further invading people's lives

It is not invading your life by verifying who you are?
Do you feel your life is being invaded by having to show who you are to travel?
Do you feel your life is being invaded by showing who you are to get a bank account?
Do you feel your life is being invaded by proving who you are to drive a car ?

You're wrong. A gun is primarily intended for killing. The internet is intended for an awful lot of things, many of them useful and good. ID requirements would also curtail those useful and good things. I note you haven't answered StanfordPines' questions about the practicalities of providing ID in real time so that people in need of real time help can get that without having to send off/scan and email documents which then need to be moderated and checked before access is granted. Simply put: with onerous ID requirements, a lot of people would be put off accessing things they need. All to deal with a small minority of people who spoil it for everyone else. Your approach is a bit like the government's approach to benefits: make it so difficult to claim that people don't, treat everyone like a potential cheat, make everyone's lives more difficult for the sake of the small number of people who are playing the system. No. I get it, you want checks, you don't like much of the Internet. But your suggestions are heavy-handed, ill thought out, impractical and at odds with the rights to freedom and privacy. If you want authoritarianism then the UK is heading in the right direction, but you may wish to relocate to North Korea to get what you want.

It is not invading your life by verifying who you are?
Do you feel your life is being invaded by having to show who you are to travel?
Do you feel your life is being invaded by showing who you are to get a bank account?
Do you feel your life is being invaded by proving who you are to drive a car ?

When you're part of society, you give up some individuality. Things like bank accounts, driving licenses and passports have been around for a long time and are widely accepted by the majority of people.

You're proposing a giant step further and one that I will not ever accept. I think you'll find most people won't, except people like you for whom the eradication (which won't be possible anyway) of online bullying is more important than anything else. I don't know what you've suffered online, it is probably very serious, but your solution just isn't going to fly because not everyone feels like you. Most of us accept that in life, we will encounter unpleasant people whose behaviour does not cross the border into what is criminal, and we live with it. Sometimes life is tough.

I assume that all the ‘prove who you are’ people here are posting under their real names...

The single consistent thing about all of these threads where people advocate requiring ID to use the internet is the utter lack of response to any questions about the practicalities. No answer to how ID will be verified, how the sign up process will work, how the people without ID can join in.

Advocates of this daft idea just keep chanting "ID" without any actual thought.

@StanfordPines

I assume that all the ‘prove who you are’ people here are posting under their real names...

Aren't we all? Clearly my name is indeed 'pointythings'. Except at Christmas and sometimes Halloween.

When you're part of society, you give up some individuality. Things like bank accounts, driving licenses and passports have been around for a long time and are widely accepted by the majority of people

Yes but you surely understand that there was the "first" to be around when passports became mandatory, photograph driving licences, bank accounts and they became the norm,( it wasmt actually that long ago in the scheme of things) that is how things work, we see a need for verification and then it gets implemented, then it becomes the norm. Do you feel they are invading your privacy???

You're proposing a giant step further and one that I will not ever accept

As im sure many felt about passports, driving licences and bank account IDa

I think you'll find most people won't, except people like you for whom the eradication (which won't be possible anyway) of online bullying is more important than anything else

Again, and again, and once again its not about the eradication of it, its about reducing it as much as possible to help with a ever growing issue.

I don't know what you've suffered online, it is probably very serious

I havent suffered anything

but your solution just isn't going to fly because not everyone feels like you

Not everyone has to though

Most of us accept that in life, we will encounter unpleasant people whose behaviour does not cross the border into what is criminal, and we live with it. Sometimes life is tough

Again yes most of us accept that is fine,as do i about unpleasantries (as ive constantly said, but you seem to fail to take it in and just keep repeating it ??!!) but also there is a massive amount of people who disagree with tolerating abuse, abuse of any form as we want a society that doesnt make excuses for abusers of any type.

Still no answers
Will Twitter, MN etc need to employ extra staff to check everyone's ID?
How will they verify it? - will I have to send my Driving licence to MN?

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@FrippEnos

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Yeah, I'm out. So much bleating about how things have to change - not a single practical suggestion as to how it's going to work in the real world. It's always the same.

Let's focus instead on making schools tackle bullying more firmly, putting some real effort into improving mental health services for young people (that's the job I'm in) and teaching people how to cope with life online without wrapping them in cotton wool.

Yeah, I'm out. So much bleating about how things have to change - not a single practical suggestion as to how it's going to work in the real world. It's always the same

I have answered everything you have put to me 🤣🤣 and shown your responses to hold no weight. Other than "you dont want to" and mentioning alot of tosh that doesnt stand up in a discussion at all about dark web and talking as if passports and other verification have been around since christ.

Let's focus instead on making schools tackle bullying more firmly, putting some real effort into improving mental health services for young people (that's the job I'm in)

I couldnt agree more as i keep saying. But they are not mutually exclusive, these can be done alongside trying to reduce the abuse people recieved on line or holding those to account who do.

and teaching people how to cope with life online without wrapping them in cotton wool

Its a shame you are working with young people struggling with mental health, with the shut up and put up attitude to abuse.

Those i know in that area of expertise are desperate for social media to be tighter and aknowledge the part it plays in this ever rising battle for their metal wellbeing.

Aren't we all? Clearly my name is indeed 'pointythings'. Except at Christmas and sometimes Halloween.

Again it's a mute point, the users details wouldn't be available or displayed to other users.?!,

I have answered everything you have put to me
Could you answer this please?
Will Twitter, MN etc need to employ extra staff to check everyone's ID?
How will they verify it? - will I have to send my Driving licence to MN?

@Tigger001

Aren't we all? Clearly my name is indeed 'pointythings'. Except at Christmas and sometimes Halloween.

Again it's a mute point, the users details wouldn't be available or displayed to other users.?!,

Its not a moot point - the connection to a real person is a riak - look how often MN has been hacked.

@DynamoKev

Still no answers Will Twitter, MN etc need to employ extra staff to check everyone's ID? How will they verify it? - will I have to send my Driving licence to MN?

No. Because there isn’t one. The same with paying. I bet the percentage of people who pay for MN premium is a tiny fraction

I'm not front line, don't worry - I'm project managing. But do I think people need to have some level of toughness? Hell yes. I have two DDs, who have both been bullied at school. And just for grins, while I was doing dinner, I asked them how they would feel about providing full identifiable ID to the services they use online. Their reply is unprintable. I'd like to see young people polled about this idea of yours; I reckon the response wouldn't be one you'd like.

And you haven't answered any of my questions, you've just given me snarky emojis and idealism, nothing practical.

Lastly, travel permits are much older than people think - they were used in England as early as 1215, and the Romans also used travel documents. Safe conducts were in widespread use from around 1500 onwards. If you're proposing to give Internet ID those kind of timescales, I suppose it might work. Any time soon? Not so much.

Any answers on the method of ID questions posed above yet?

Let’s imagine that I have decided that that what the world needs is a forum related to being the owner of a black cat. It’ll give like minded cat owners somewhere to chat about their cats, share pictures, stories etc. It’s a simple site and so I can run it myself.

So I set it up and request ID from members.

All is innocent but here are two problems. How do I, as a regular person know that the photo of a driving licence sent to me is legitimate? How do I prove even slightly that the details I’m seeing belongs to [email protected]?

But moreover how does the person with that email address who is trying to join my forum know that I am just someone who really loves black cats and not someone about to steal their identity with the documents they have sent me?