That women of colour face a combination of racism and misogyny

[Sprining]

...that is a very toxic cocktail.

And are often not supported by a large section of white women (who are often part of the racism problem) and a large section of BAME men (who are often part of the sexism problem)

And attractive, successful ethnic minority women are brutally targeted, often to the detriment of their me al health. Really glad for Meghan Markle, Serena Williams and Jameela for bringing this to the fore.

Do you agree?

@littlepattilou and considering I haven’t taken your phone away from you I’m sure I’m not silencing you. I just don’t like to see stupid posts unchallenged. While I wish there was a clause that meant MNHQ could delete accounts which just said the same thing over and over again unfortunately there is not so I do not believe you are being silenced at all.

PlanDeRaccordement

You win the prize for most obvious statement of the day.

This. ^ I'm not sure what the point of this thread is

Is anyone going to disagree with @Sprining ??? confused

Anyone who does will INSTANTLY be labelled racist/bigoted/gammon/probz voted for Brexit la la la LOL. hmm

Or maybe the OP posted it for some 'woke' points. wink

I thought for it to be the "most obvious statement of the day" (a ridiculously unnecessary statement by the way, not to mention false), it means everyone and their mum knows this and agrees it's true.

As you can see, it's not so and posters are disagreeing as well so your claim that people won't disagree is pointless.

Also, if the only reason people won't disagree with the OP, as you claim though, is for fear of being labelled whatever and not because they disagree, then it's not exactly an obvious statement, is it?

So what's the point of your post except to score "anti-woke" points?

[quote littlepattilou]@cinammonbuns Your comment was so sickeningly predictable that it's actually hilarious. [/quote]
And yours wasn't?

Agreed. It used to be called Intersectionality in my day.

not because they agree

Phrases like this are deliberately "othering" towards people of colour, and minimise the discrimination that people face on the basis of their perfectly normal, natural skin tone. In my experience, the people who use these phrases are the same type of people who say "I'm not racist but..."
Can't you see that this statement is a paradox and complete generalisation meant to stereotype? Using the term 'same type of people', which would be deemed as racist if referring to black people? The irony!

but I just know the typical trope used to 'dislike' Black women, which is steeped in subconscious bias at best
And here we've got the 'typical' trope, another generalisation of what supposedly racists see black women as.

You're condemning generalisations attributed to black people by white racists by making generalisations about them. How does this work?

Can't you see that this statement is a paradox and complete generalisation meant to stereotype? Using the term 'same type of people', which would be deemed as racist if referring to black people? The irony!

Making generalisations on the basis of observed behaviours is a bit different from making generalisations on the basis of skin colour.

YANBU - but also

Not on Mumsnet apparently

^ This! There is no racism on here that cant be explained away/dismissed/blamed on the victim.

@Porcupineintherough

YANBU - but also

Not on Mumsnet apparently

^ This! There is no racism on here that cant be explained away/dismissed/blamed on the victim.

True!

Making generalisations about who? I've said these words are usually used by racists as well as those who hold a subconscious bias to describe and condemn black women. I didn't say anyone who uses these words is racist. I said it's up to you to decide which side you belong to as I cannot say for sure.

Yes it is a 'typical trope'. If you want to dislike or say something about a black woman so much, I'm sure there are many other reasons you can come up with. If the only ones you have are part of the stereotype often used to smear black women, whether you're racist or not, don't be surprised someone will pick at those words.

@DayBath

Genuine question, I've been told on another forum that 'people of colour' is considered an outdated racist term. I've also been told BAME is offensive but I see it used all the tile in government policy. The title caught my eye for this reason...what's the deal with this? (For context the other forum was Reddit so could have different views as it's US-centric)

This. ^ I am sick of the 'acceptable' terms changing, and then being told by the wokery that what people have been saying is now classed as 'offensive.'

Sick to fucking death of having to take my words out of my mouth and look at them before speaking, lest I offend 'the woke.' 🙄

Making generalisations on the basis of observed behaviours is a bit different from making generalisations on the basis of skin colour
Exactly my point! My comments were on observed behaviour only. I specified the attributes and why I don't Serena Williams. I didn't mention the colour of her skin.

Yet this got translated in white racist people generalisations about black with the assumption I was one of them.

This is exact how racism is perceived when there was none to begin with!

I think the point here is that it usually women and especially women of colour who are called arrogant or uppity. In other words, they should always be pleasant and show humility because they are lower in the pecking order. Even if they are on the top of their game

@AnotherName1334, you are so proving my point it's aughable!

Once again, nowhere did I say I dislike her because of the colour of skin, not once, and I don't. Yet I could scream it until I lose my voice and you would still insist that that's my rrason because it suits your agenda to call anyone racist who doesn't agree with the views, or like a black person.

@Sprining

...that is a very toxic cocktail.

And are often not supported by a large section of white women (who are often part of the racism problem) and a large section of BAME men (who are often part of the sexism problem)

And attractive, successful ethnic minority women are brutally targeted, often to the detriment of their me al health. Really glad for Meghan Markle, Serena Williams and Jameela for bringing this to the fore.

Do you agree?

Yes. I recently got targetted by bullies for saying ‘fuck’ in an environment where everyone else says that or worse. But I’m the only woman of colour with a seat at the table and so I was held up to a higher standard. It only stopped when I began to reference the bullies every time a ceo to us swore - ‘oh better not do that, x has a problem with others swearing’.

Once again, nowhere did I say I dislike her because of the colour of skin, not once, and I don't.
Where did I say you said this? Where did I say you're racist? Where did I say it's your reason? You're being defensive so much, you seem to continually misread what I'm writing and put words in my mouth.

@Sprining That's the point. Thank you OP. Let others take things personally and continue to defend themselves against invisible accusations if they want. If the shoe fits and all...

I specified the attributes and why I don't Serena Williams. I didn't mention the colour of her skin.

No, but the specific attributes that you specified just happened to be the usual tropes that get wheeled out whenever black women dare to show a bit of confidence. Go and read about unconscious bias.

And stop making comments about people with green skin. It marks you out as having a certain attitude towards people who are not white.

@Sprining

I think the point here is that it usually women and especially women of colour who are called arrogant or uppity. In other words, they should always be pleasant and show humility because they are lower in the pecking order. Even if they are on the top of their game

Yes one of our ceos is Indian and says she routinely has to speak up and in many cases demote members of her own team who do this. She says it’s mostly white women her age (mid-60s) who do this though.

This is what intersectionality meant until it was hijacked by all sorts of groups tying themselves in knots with language. The acknowledgement that black women have a double cross to bear in society - structural racism and the patriarchy. Seems obvious to me.

Jamila Jameel pisses me right off with her ‘like me, oh please like me!’ approach to social media and her handmaiden antics re trans rights. But as a woman of colour, of course she has experienced sexism and racism and from all angles, too, I bet. I believe her.

Yes I agree.

There is also a deeply embedded issue where there is discrimination within most ethnic groups, which is aimed at deeper skin toned individuals within that ethnicity.

How are we meant to expect fair treatment and acceptance from people outside our ethnic group when we can't even accept each other for who we are.

There was a Sharon Osbourne interview I was a clip of, she was crying because she felt she'd been seen as racist by association as her black friend discussed PM being racist towards MM. Gina Yhsree (poor spelling sorry) called into the program and called her out and was very articulate.

I felt watching it that it must be exhausting to be a black woman. Being a white woman this week I feel emotional and ground down by persistent sexism in society, to be dealing with racism too must be quite a burden.

saw

I felt watching it that it must be exhausting to be a black woman. Being a white woman this week I feel emotional and ground down by persistent sexism in society, to be dealing with racism too must be quite a burden

Absolutely. I’m also a white woman, exhausted by sexism. DH is a black man exhausted by racism. It must be doubly draining and fucking enraging for black women. I am all ears when black women speak about their experiences because fuck me, they’ve got plenty to speak up about.

Sharon said she is against misogyny, racism and bullying yet the only thing she felt to say to Piers was not to call out his misogyny, bullying and racist antics but to soldier him on to "speak his truth". When people picked at what she did, she was belligerent, rude and shouted down the black woman who was trying to explain why people were calling her out. It's not a rare occurrence.

I agree absolutely and I'm so grateful to friends and public figures who have helped me to see it