That women of colour face a combination of racism and misogyny

[Sprining]

...that is a very toxic cocktail.

And are often not supported by a large section of white women (who are often part of the racism problem) and a large section of BAME men (who are often part of the sexism problem)

And attractive, successful ethnic minority women are brutally targeted, often to the detriment of their me al health. Really glad for Meghan Markle, Serena Williams and Jameela for bringing this to the fore.

Do you agree?

@Haydugi

And are often not supported by a large section of white women

I think it’s far more nuanced than simply blaming white women. Women of colour also can face racism from other black women and, more often black men.

Yes, but I am not a black woman or a man. I am a white woman, and I am sure a lot of people on mumsnet are (because it is a predominantly female site and also because it is based in the UK where the majority are white. Of course there are plenty of women on here from other backgrounds). Therefore it seems perfectly reasonable to discuss this here. I do wish that more women drew a conection between how they felt when the Metoo movement was met by "Namalt" and "They are just making it up for attention" and how discussions around racism are met with "you cant tar everyone with the same brush" and "MM is just saying that for sympathy". I think not to think about both issues means it is impossible to make real progress on either.

I absolutely agree that women of colour experience multiple incidents of racism and of misogyny.

I also believe that some incidents are neither racially motivated or sexist, and to insist they are undermines the truth of the first statement.

I'm really aware that I can be defensive and hypercritical around men. There's a younger man I know who winds me up no end and I'm sick of him trying to tell an older woman how to suck eggs. I was grumbling about him and my husband pointed out he's equally bad in his attitude to other men. On reflection, DH was right. The guy's an irritating arsehole, but he's an equal opps IA, I was wrong to accuse him of sexism and mansplaining.

C130 yes I can see my comment reads as whataboutary.

When my friend and I moved seats and I said wtaf, why didn't you tell that woman to do one, she said black women judge her the hardest and so I recount that experience as total racism to my friend.

And I realise I left that important part of our conversation out of my comment, sorry.

Yes that's usually what 'they' accuse black women of being because they dare have confidence, assurance and are direct
I would have thought the same if her skin was green. She was very unpleasant and rude. Should that be defended just because she is black and therefore seen as a virtue rather than what it was? If it upset people, it doesn't matter what you call it, it is wrong.

Like whom?
Got to speak to Navratilova once and she was delightful.

Obviously my opinion, don't expect everyone else to agree, I just want to be respected for not liking someone without bringing race into it.

You can dislike someone but the usual accusation for not liking Black women is always to do with stuck-up, condescending, rude, direct, superior, angry, plain old 'attitude'. Unless all Black women are like this, I think it's more a wilful or subconcious-bias misinterpretation of confidence, candour, standing up for oneself and self-assurance.

I would have thought the same if her skin was green.

I'm always deeply suspicious of people who post stuff like this.

You can dislike someone but the usual accusation for not liking Black women is always to do with stuck-up, condescending, rude, direct, superior, angry, plain old 'attitude'. Unless all Black women are like this, I think it's more a wilful or subconcious-bias misinterpretation of confidence, candour, standing up for oneself and self-assurance

And that's not passive-agressive comment!

I dislike all female, male, black, Chinese, white people with these traits. I dislike more white people with these characteristics because I have come across more white people in my life!

Not ALL black nor white women are like this. Thankfully they are a small minority.

Some people seem to want to make everything about race. It really isn't.

Agree OP and if you haven't read about intersectionality it's worth a look up.

I don't know if it's just the threads I've been on, but am so disheartened by excuses made for racists and racism on MN.

I've been on this site under many different names (have to delete my accc sometimes otherwise I'd be on here all day) and have just been so sad this past week - so much "did they really mean it like that" "are you sure they're really racist and it's not just a clash of personalities" "well I talked about whether my baby would have blonde or brown hair, so don't see how having concerns about skin tone could be in any way racist whatsoever"

It's all very tiring. And I'm mixed so I don't even experience the worst that racism has to offer.

@PlanDeRaccordement

You win the prize for most obvious statement of the day.

This. ^ I'm not sure what the point of this thread is.

Is anyone going to disagree with @Sprining ???

Anyone who does will INSTANTLY be labelled racist/bigoted/gammon/probz voted for Brexit la la la LOL.

Or maybe the OP posted it for some 'woke' points.

I'm always deeply suspicious of people who post stuff like this
Suspicious of what? Or do you mean being judgemental of a stranger based on nothing?

@littlepattilou Daily Mail comments are that way.

Of course they do OP, could not make it a few pages without the usual suspects though.

[quote cinammonbuns]@littlepattilou Daily Mail comments are that way.[/quote]
Thanks for proving me right.

@littlepattilou proving you right that you go on everything thread you can screaming about ‘WOKE’. Yes I did. It is quite boring now.

@cinammonbuns Your comment was so sickeningly predictable that it's actually hilarious.

@Sprining

...that is a very toxic cocktail.

And are often not supported by a large section of white women (who are often part of the racism problem) and a large section of BAME men (who are often part of the sexism problem)

And attractive, successful ethnic minority women are brutally targeted, often to the detriment of their me al health. Really glad for Meghan Markle, Serena Williams and Jameela for bringing this to the fore.

Do you agree?

I've noticed the exact same prominent female commentators (special mention to "woke" white men) heartily support women and their right to be safe...then in the next breath rip Meghan Markle to fucking pieces and defend Piers Morgan.

It goes further than racism, actually, it is the deliberate ignoring and shouting down of black women's experiences of both racism AND sexism in a way which is so transparently vile and totally intentional.

Suspicious of what? Or do you mean being judgemental of a stranger based on nothing?

Suspicious of people who claim that they wouldn't care if someone's skin was green (or purple or any other colour that doesn't represent a normal human skin colour).

Phrases like this are deliberately "othering" towards people of colour, and minimise the discrimination that people face on the basis of their perfectly normal, natural skin tone. In my experience, the people who use these phrases are the same type of people who say "I'm not racist but..."

@littlepattilou as was yours .

I think this thread proves my concern that the moment you voice not liking someone and that someone happens to be black or mixed, you are going to be labelled as racist, no matter the reasons for disliking them. Saying the same thing about a white person somehow seems absolutely fine though.

Sadly this has led many people not daring saying anything at all and an assumption that this silence means endorsement.

Of course.

And that's not passive-agressive comment!

No it's not a passive aggressive comment, it's a straight forward comment which means you know where I stand.

I'm not necessarily arguing with you in particular about who you like or dislike as I can't say for sure but I just know the typical trope used to 'dislike' Black women, which is steeped in subconscious bias at best. It's up to you to decide if that's what you're doing or not.

Feel free to skim past my posts @cinammonbuns if they offend your precious 'woke' eyes.

Typical of the 'woke' left, calling people daily mail readers and bigots and gammon to try and shut them down.. You won't shut me down, or silence me, so don't even think about trying

And just so you know, copying what I say is making you look a bit dim.

HTH.

I'm going to ignore you and your goady posts from now on. I suggest you do the same with me as clearly my posts upset you so much, because they're not 'woke' enough for you..

@littlepattilou do you have any other words in your vocabulary apart form ‘woke’. Have you tried ‘liberal’ ‘snowflake’ ‘millennial’. Anything to change it up?

Genuine question, I've been told on another forum that 'people of colour' is considered an outdated racist term. I've also been told BAME is offensive but I see it used all the tile in government policy. The title caught my eye for this reason...what's the deal with this? (For context the other forum was Reddit so could have different views as it's US-centric)

Well yes of course, black people experience racism, women experience misogyny. And I think a lot of anti-racism, BLM movement is targeted towards men, and a lot of feminism probably white women. Of course black men are just as misogynistic as white men, and white women just as racist as white men.

In itself we present the white man as the ultimate privelage, which it is, but sometimes this means we can bypass racism, misogyny, able ism in people that are not white men.

Jameela Jamil has said some pretty vile things over the years though, she is a massive part of the problem she herself is calling out