to think that it's unacceptable for men to use the "b" word

[Lessthanaballpark]

There's a guy in our group of friends who uses this a lot, specifically aimed at one younger woman (who I'm convinced he likes but that's beside the point)

The young woman in question is very witty with her words and gives as good as she gets (without the need for excessive name-calling) but I know that she sometimes gets tired of it and would rather he didn't. She says nothing because she doesn't want to appear too sensitive.

He did it again today (she wasn't there - he referred to her as "a dumb bitch". I told him I didn't like it. He said "You know I'm just joking right?". I said you would not jokingly use the N word to person of colour so why do you think it's ok to jokingly level the B word to a woman.

He was shocked and told me that I was being absurd, that the B word wasn't nearly as bad because Black people were enslaved and oppressed for 400 years.

I said it doesn't need to be AS bad for it to be unacceptable and that the principle was the same.

We had a back and forth, quite amicable, I told him he was being illogical. He said we'd have to agree to disagree and we left it at that.

However... he continued to use it.

I can't imagine continuing to use a word that I knew was offensive to someone of the target group. I would never purposefully misgender someone for example.

But he was so incredulous that I was equating the two that I'm doubting myself now.

Anyway:

YANBU: he's a twat and shouldn't use it
YABU: you're being too sensitive. it's just banter.

Well I use bastard often, and I'm not a man.

I don't police people's language.

I think he's a twat. I'm not suggesting calling someone a bitch is as bad as using racist language - but you have told him you find this word offensive and he has continued to argue with you, and continued to use it.

Deliberately unpleasant and provocative.

Over sensitive nonsense. And comparison with n**r is ridiculous.

Well I use bastard often, and I'm not a man.

I don't think bastard is gendered. It refers to someone who is not "legitimate".

Just because other words are worse does not make it right.

It should be unacceptable for anyone to use the B-word regardless of sex, just like it should be unacceptable for anyone to use the N-word regardless of race.

It's worse for anyone to use any word which causes distress or offence to someone especially after being asked not to. So he's being a twat on both accounts. YANBU.

I agree. Misogynistic insult.

And comparison with nr is ridiculous

Great. Can you tell my why you think this? I think they're both bad. Why do you think only one is?

I really hate men using the word bitch and frankly would LTB if my boyfriend ever used it to me.
I really don’t think it’s in the same ball park as the n word, though. YANBU for asking him not to use it however.

I understand what you mean. Where do we draw the line though? You yourself have used a word to for female genitalia as an insult.

You yourself have used a word to for female genitalia as an insult.

Ah ok. Then I guess the difference is one of scale, because he uses it lot. But also if someone explained to me and asked me not to I wouldn't. Is the word "twat" btw?!

The ‘b’ word - you are being incredibly unreasonable for censoring the word.

Horrible derogatory term only ever used to describe women in a negative way. YANBU he called her a "dumb bitch"!
Be proud you called him out on it, I'm getting so sick of the 'banter' excuse as well.

I have no issue with swearing or language, but I think it is telling that he uses this word to describe a younger female. I very much doubt he would refer to another man in this manner. I also think that ‘banter’ is a word used by men to justify their misogyny.

All of this aside, you have explained that you don’t like this and why and he has demonstrated just how little he cares. He sounds absolutely awful tbh.

YANBU - We know how widespread violence against women perpetrated by men is and how acceptable it is, particularly within relationships.

The only times I’ve been called a bitch by men have been while they were attempting to sexually assault me or while I was criticising them for doing something deeply unreasonable. So I don’t have pleasant associations- it’s all a bit “look at that uppity woman not doing what she’s told!” I have the same problem with “Karen” tbf. Just makes me feel a bit uncomfortable.

This reminds me of a conversation where a female workmate was telling me it was understandable that people might be confused as the n word is used in music a lot. This was in response to my son being called the n word at school. My first reaction was would it be ok for us to be called bitches at work. No.

Thanks TobTabby.

I mean I am of an older generation so I understand that for me it has a certain shock element that doesn't exist for them.

But still, it just feels hypocritical that this guy uses it so much whilst he's pretty "woke" on topics such as racism and trans issues. Why is one acceptable but not the other?

But

@Lessthanaballpark

Thanks TobTabby.

I mean I am of an older generation so I understand that for me it has a certain shock element that doesn't exist for them.

But still, it just feels hypocritical that this guy uses it so much whilst he's pretty "woke" on topics such as racism and trans issues. Why is one acceptable but not the other?

But

See I’m old and it doesn’t shock me at all. It was in common use when I was young, my mum (born 1918) said it. I often say I’ve got a bitchy resting face. For me it’s just a word.

It's vile, I hate it and I always comment if I hear anyone using it. If you're going to use misogynistic slurs, then expect to have your language policed. It is as bad as racism. How on earth is it not? We've just normalised sexism and accepted that it's fine because it's only women.

I have no issue with swearing or language, but I think it is telling that he uses this word to describe a younger female. I very much doubt he would refer to another man in this manner. I also think that ‘banter’ is a word used by men to justify their misogyny.

There is definitely something in that because he doesn't use it with me. Uses it in front of me but not to me.

We've just normalised sexism and accepted that it's fine because it's only women

Yes, that's what I feel. The fact that it is starting to feel less shocking is telling in itself.

Oh and yes, he will use it to other men occasionally but nowhere near to the same extent.

The fact that it is starting to feel less shocking is telling in itself

I’d like to know when it started being shocking. It came as a shock to me when I discovered people found it unacceptable.

He sounds like a misogynist to me. That fact he's very "woke" if anything further inclines me to think that. Wokism seems to go hand in hand with hating women

I think it depends on the context. If a woman was genuinely being a bitch then I'd say it's fine. I don't generally have a problem with swearing though. It doesn't bother me. I think bitch,cunt,arsehole. Wanker all have slightly different meanings depending on the way someone is behaving. It's doesn't bother me that it's gendered. I'd probably use bitch for woman and arsehole or wander for a man behaving similarly.

I don't think it's ok to call friends a "dumb bitch" as banter. That's just horrible.

It's not comparable to the n word though. That's in a league of its own I'm afraid and for good reason. .