Police advising women not to walk alone at night

[Bubbinsmakesthree]

I’ve seen a lot of friends outraged at the Met police locally advising women not to walk alone at night in the days following the disappearance of Sarah Everard. I’ve seen a posts along the lines of ‘how about telling men not to attack women instead?’

I absolutely agree with the wider point that we should be asking the question “how do we make it safe for women?” not “how do women stay out of danger?”

But in this case, was the police’s advice not just the equivalent of advising people to stay out of the water following a shark attack?

I’m so upset and angry about Sarah Everard but I cannot get incensed about the police advising women to take precautions when an unknown attacker may have still been in the area.

I don’t even trust my son walking alone after midnight. I know it is silly but after certain time of the night, I just don’t trust anyone who is lurking. If he walk with a friend from his college dorm, I would feel much better

smallgoon

The police have said they're investigating the possibility that the suspect used covid law to detain Sarah.

Now this is scary.“

I have t seen this but have just had this conversation with my husband. It’s the first thing that occurred to me.
I’d always been certain that if a police officer tried to pull me over, I would go (drive, I suppose in reality) to the nearest police station and let them deal with me there. Until I was actually pulled over for a minor transgression on an empty road on my way to pick up from school.
My throat dried up, I began to shake and at that moment I would have gone wherever he directed me.

On foot, that poor, poor woman was even more vulnerable.

I used to go a longer way home from school when I was 12 while a building was having work done with scaffolding. The men used to really scare me. Sometimes they would shout but often they would just stare intently which I found more threatening somehow.

On the risk assessment thing I agree that humans are poor at risk assessment.

However I would dispute that women are getting this all wrong.

1. Most have multiple in incidents of a range of severity
2. Constant reinforcment that we are essentially prey (the tfl cab advert was a good example)
3. Others freaking out/ insisting that it's dangerous if we step outside the 'rules'
4. Knowing that if anything happens then there's little to no point in reporting it and if you tell people lots will minimise it/ blame you

With that background, I don't think it's down to women's dodgy risk assessment. It's down to experience and an understanding of how these things play out.

I always took the view it was down to luck and did what I wanted. Most perky people are taken aback by that.

And again the idea that literally nothing can be done seems prevalent on this thread. It's not true though. Have so many women just given up?

When I lived in London and a drunk man was pestering me on the night bus home, it was another male passenger who got off a stop early to check that I was safe and that the drunk man didn't follow me. When I was mugged and my handbag was stolen one night, it was a male stranger who gave me 40 pounds to get a cab safely home.
Agree, this isn't a woman's problem to fix but most men aren't the problem.

‘Actually I think people are suggesting women can take precautions if they want, and many choose to, and would like information to help them do so effectively when it's available.’

It isn’t about wants though is it? Women have to go to work. They can’t choose not to be out after dark.

The police have said they're investigating the possibility that the suspect used covid law to detain Sarah.

Is there a link to where the police have said that? Because they've made very few statements and I definitely don't think that was one of them.

More like "internet forum users have speculated on the possibility that the suspect used covid law to detain Sarah"

I agree with OP.

Wondering whether more generally anyone on this thread has noticed an increase in street harrassment / cat calling / cars slowing down behind you etc etc since lockdown started?

It’s only anecdotal but among all my friends living in even the busiest parts of the city, there seems to be consensus even before this week’s tragedy, that men have become much more agressive in harrassing women on the street, at all hours of day or night.

Maybe this warrants another thread...

a metro article is linked upthread.

Surely if The Men are curfewed, you're still putting women at risk of being murdered at home?

Also this whole "I want to be an ally" thing is cute but how is anyone planning to stop a killer abusing his position of power to commit an opportunitistic killing? Men like that are psychopaths and may even have a history of abuse. No amount of "education" is going to change that killer profile.

@Cam77

Selective quoting there.

If you actually follow the link you’ll also find this.....

“When those experiencing severe and minor abuse are combined, there appears to be symmetry between the genders and this can lead to the assumption that men are victims to the same extent as women.
However, when we exclude those who experience minor abuse, we find that women are much more likely to experience severe domestic abuse. They are twice as likely to be injured as a result of domestic abuse; more likely to experience serious injuries; more likely to require medical attention as a result of abuse; and the impact of the abuse in terms of fear, distress and health impacts is more significant for women than men.
Correct reading of this research reinforces what logic and 30 years of data and research have already confirmed for us, that men are generally the perpetrators of domestic violence and that women are generally the victims.“

men have become much more agressive in harrassing women on the street, at all hours of day or night
I agree, my interpretation is that more of us are on edge/have a short fuse and men are more likely to act out their aggression because they instinctively know they can get away with it?

It’s not even about “educating” the fledgling rapists and murderers

It’s about educating everybody else to accept nothing less than zero tolerance of the mistreatment of women by men purely because of her biology

I have just been on another thread started by a woman trying to say others complaining about their own sexual assaults should shut up about it because at least they are not dead

It’s endemic. And it needs to stop

@AnyFucker Within THREE MINS of Question Time on BBC 1 starting we had men are victims too.

@MercyBooth

a metro article is linked upthread.

Checked it. No mention of covid.

I can imagine @MercyBooth

[quote Cam77]Also see:
www.theguardian.com/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence[/quote]
ah yes women are just as bad, after all 2-3 men per week are murdered by their female partners!

@saraclara

The murderer will still go out but he won’t be hidden among the other men. If all good men stay in then all men out and about are suspect and the police can deal with them. Women will be the majority out and about.

@Mmn654123 seriously? All men have to stay in every night for the rest of their lives so that any man out and about will be more obvious?

Apart from the fact that that is ridiculously unfair, more women will die because the vast majority of murders of women are by ther partners. And being cooped up every night with angry men will have obvious results.

Oh, and of course it will be more work for women, because if men can't go out, women will have to do every errand that needs doing after dark.

No.

Just when a woman has been attacked. Until the perpetrator is caught. And only men within, say, a 5 or 10 mile radius (expect someone will have data on the distance from their home most men who kill, rape or assault women travel on average to decide the target area).

Short term measure. Better than suggesting women must stay in - they aren’t the attacker.

It’s also said detectives are investigating whether he used the lockdown restrictions to stop Sarah as she walked home to Brixton on March 3

@Biffbaff

Surely if The Men are curfewed, you're still putting women at risk of being murdered at home?

Also this whole "I want to be an ally" thing is cute but how is anyone planning to stop a killer abusing his position of power to commit an opportunitistic killing? Men like that are psychopaths and may even have a history of abuse. No amount of "education" is going to change that killer profile.

The Men are curfewed short term until the perpetrator is caught. That’s all. Of course it won’t change the killers behaviour - but it will make them visible. They will be the lone man walking the streets at night.

@Cocopogo

There needs to be a mass education programme aimed at secondary school boys and runs through to college and uni and beyond. The PHSE just isn’t enough, it should be a specific, targeted at boys approach to educate them and keep them from committing crimes and out of prison. Why is 95% of the prison population male? What is it about men that makes them violent? Do they all need castrating? There could be age where sperm samples are collected so they can have kids but then castrate them all, maybe the lack of male hormones would change them?

Works for Tomcats

@MercyBooth

It’s also said detectives are investigating whether he used the lockdown restrictions to stop Sarah as she walked home to Brixton on March 3

Got it.

Right so like I said. The police have never said any such thing. "It's said detectives are investigating" literally means the "journo" saw or heard a somebody saying it. Probably just people speculating online.

@Closetbeanmuncher

How about the police men are home, and armed police women patrol the curfew

I'm of the opinion that it should be legal for us to carry tasers for personal protection. Why should we lose our liberty because toxic masculinity (masquerading as 'harmless lad culture') is out of control??

They need to sort their fucking shit out.

If it was legal to carry tasers for personal protection, what is to prevent a man using one to incapacitate a woman?

I don't really think a curfew is desirable, reasonable or enforceable, but I think that society's attitude to women needs to change - harassment, cat-calling, "groping", up skirting etc, should all be taken seriously. If our culture doesn't regard women as being worth keeping safe, then nor will many of the men within our culture.

And it also comes back to recognising women's particular vulnerability because of their physical weakness (compared with men) and admitting that safe, female-only spaces are necessary.

Obviously this would not have helped Sarah because of where she was abducted, but it makes the environment safer for most women on a daily basis.

[quote Cam77]Also see:
www.theguardian.com/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence[/quote]
Interestingly that article is illustrated by what appears to be a man being assaulted by what appears to be a woman, unclear pictures, and obviously given the subject matter the pictures are staged. But, and I am guessing here, I don’t think it is as simple as men assault women but look women assault men too. There are no figures given but I would hazard as guess that while some, maybe many, men are assaulted by female partners a good many of the men in that report were actually assaulted by male partners.

@Northofsomewhere

Could the advice be because they're concerned other people (mainly men) who have been thinking about abducting someone (mainly women) might act on it in light of the extensive (and absolutely necessary) media coverage of the case? They might be attempting to reduce the risk of this happening again very quickly because some other dangerous or ill person is encouraged (wrong word but couldn't think of a better one) by the current case.

Then surely the advice should be that men should not go out at night.