To think that if the only black adult in your family says they have experienced racism...

[Overcastcloudy]

... it's counterproductive to send a white man out to say, We're very much not racist?

That just is never going to end well. Ask Ian Murray how it worked out for him.

I couldn't care much either way about the Royal Family. Just baffled at the headline of William saying this.

@GreenSlide I think you're the one doing the mudslinging. My contribution is up thread if you care to read it! Or can you not take someone with a differing opinion, bottom line is YOU have zero idea what conversation s were had when but instead you speculate and insinuate someone you don't even know if lying. Get a life!

[quote isitfridayyet1]@GreenSlide I think you're the one doing the mudslinging. My contribution is up thread if you care to read it! Or can you not take someone with a differing opinion, bottom line is YOU have zero idea what conversation s were had when but instead you speculate and insinuate someone you don't even know if lying. Get a life![/quote]
I didn't say MM was lying and don't believe she was, have you even read my posts? Jesus.

[quote isitfridayyet1]@GreenSlide you're clearly one of those English people who can't stand anyone with an ounce of colour in the royal family and try and dress it up in alternative language to cover that up. I'm done with this thread as the racists such as you are always lurking. Peace out![/quote]

I'm not English. If you don't like people replying to your posts, perhaps mumsnet isn't the place for you. Please don't call me a racist or a gaslighter - I haven't posted any racist comments and the gaslighting accusation is just bizarre really.

I think if Megan wanted to confront racism within her family going on Oprah and dangling That nugget out of context and without putting a name to it was completely the wrong way to go about it. It wasn’t constructive IMO.

Hear Hear re. mudslinging again. Gaslighting....good God, do grow up. Disagreeing with someone is not gaslighting them.

Harry didn't even seem to know his role in the RF. He'd been indulged as he's a sensitive chap who gets upset easily but doesn't mind upsetting others.

Harry thought the goodwill meant he could do what he liked and create a whole new version of the royal family.

Harry has always been the problem, Meghan was along for the ride sold a fairy-tale version of their future by Harry. Harry is the problem - personally, I've said that all along to anyone in real life that starts the conversation.

What I'm finding in real life is more and more people are seeing that it is Harry that has caused all the problems of dashed expectations about what being royal means.

@isitfridayyet1
you sound an absolute charmer

Marmalade, that makes a great deal of sense. He doesn’t seem very aware that the continued existence of a big royal family is not guaranteed and relies on public support.

@Overcastcloudy and @Choconuttolata - very good posts.

Some of the views on this thread are so vile that it's not worth engaging with further. I suppose the thread can be seen as a living testament to deeply unpleasant attitudes to race and to women.

Marmalade - how do you know what H&M knew, were aware of, what they have or haven’t done? The only information we have is that which is reported in the press and bad news sells, good news doesn’t.

I know Harry is a proven racist. I know that neither H nor M seem to understand what a role in the royal family constitutes. I know that H said the conversation about colour "was right at the beginning of getting together". I know M said it was about Archie.

So yes quite a lot of inconsistencies out in the open.

A known and proven racist (Harry) telling me he had a racist comment from a family member - hmmmm think I'll wait and see bigger picture.

Harry telling M that would be questionable if M was finding things difficult at the time. A caring husband may take the person to task and avoid telling M unless further comments were made (ie. give the person the benefit of the doubt).

You don’t know any of things - they may or may not be true. We’ll never know as we haven’t been party to the conversations which have taken place.

Harry was on film using racist slurs about people, so surely we do know he is (or was) a racist.

Really great post @Choconuttolata.

For those up the thread who queried my comments on the Commonwealth:

The first problem is that it’s an entirely voluntary organisation of nations. There are already powerful movements to change the nature of this association in many countries - Australia and India are just two where politicians are continually whipping up anti-British feeling and challenging the imperialist history of the Commonwealth of Nations. If fundamental questions about the British monarchy and its fitness to represent other nations are already being asked by politicians and citizens in those countries, and if there’s a fundamentally racist and dysfunctional family at the helm of it - even just ceremonially - when 2/3 of those nations are not white, that is going to provide a lot of material to arm those politicians. Malcolm Turnbull has already begun, but the bigger danger is from nationalists with a non-white population and a huge popular mandate - Modi is one to watch. (There are further comments to be made about racism in India and Australia, but I don’t have all day).

Secondly, Head of the Commonwealth is not a hereditary role, yet in 2018 Prince Charles was passed to be its next Head, apparently at the direction of the Queen. That opaque process alone begs some questions in an organisation supposedly devoted to democracy, and is known to have caused some disquiet amongst those Commonwealth countries that are republics.

If Prince Charles is named by M&H as the Racist One who made the comments about Archie - and who notably failed to make the exception for Archie that he didn’t fail to make for Charlotte and Louis - the optics really don’t look great for him. It’s going to make it very difficult for him to gain the popular support of those countries - Australia, NZ, India and Canada in particular - where leaders were already dubious about his legitimacy and suitability for the role. Again, watch Modi.

Look at where the Royal tours have taken place recently. The Royals know the score. These revelations are chip papers for us, but they could be incendiary behind closed doors once they start feeding into diplomacy and the billion dollar trade contracts that depend on that diplomacy.

As for the questions from @TomPinch and others: I won’t be writing your essay for you. I suggest you read David Pannick and Werner Menski. It’s deeply misinformed and actually rather offensive to claim the Rule of Law was our gift to the former colonies.

I’m going to leave this thread now - it’s too toxic for my MN purposes- but I haven’t even mentioned the countries in the Caribbean, whose descendants now make up the majority of Black British citizens - citizens who are rightfully already sore about Windrush and inclusion within British institutions but have now confirmed at least one of those institutions maintains only the thinnest veneer of civility.

So yeah, shit counterproductive press statement, shit rebuttal from a stupid white man.

Yes there are film clips of Harry using racial slurs. Do you not accept that as evidence? The army putting him on racism courses? Photos as a nazi?

The evidence is out there...... Harry is racist by any definition of the word. People on this thread are called racist for differing opinions, I'm not sure how the above doesn't constitute strong words from you?

[quote Marmaladeagain]@Overcastcloudy
"The racists are out and all jacked up, eager to save Britain from the only black woman in an institution that exists to represent the UK."

What an awful lot of yourself you reveal with that awful statement.

Someone asked upthread why H&M would want to continue to be part of an institution they say is racist. IYO that is 100% proof that you have the moral high ground to bestow another "racist" upon the thread.

How does it work for YOU with Harry then? Is he racist or not when he says P**i and his other racial slurs? He’s never addressed in public his previous racist comments and behaviour. But YOU get to decide that people on the thread are racists. Harry can "learn" after being overtly and publicly racist (despite never making any comment other than “made mistakes” in the past - what mistakes? (Harry really likes vague).

The army decided Harry was racist and sent on a couple of courses - most people don’t need to enrol on a course to understand why racial slurs are not acceptable.

Please do answer as to whether Harry is racist or not. Otherwise, you’re doing exactly the same as Harry has done and just throwing "racist" confetti around to make you feel good about yourself.

If he isn’t racist IYO, then why not – I don’t think it’s as easy as that to undo being a racist, is it?

We can’t make assumptions he’s a reformed character based on marrying into a mixed race family. People on this thread who are BAME have also been told they’re racist.

A proven and public racist (Harry, that is if you're still not clear) telling me someone else is a racist will lose it’s authenticity (to coin a phrase).

Harry didn't take opportunity to educate the family member at the time of the comment "right at the beginning" of getting together with Meghan (as Harry said in the interview). Why didn't Harry resolve the issue then and explain why it wasn’t an ok question (not that we know who/what was actually said).

BAME people in my family understand and share what might be a clumsy way of phrasing something etc to someone at work etc - they don't damn people first. They like to think well of people and understand life is a journey and we learn along the way.

As I say, your quote above says an awful lot about you.

So to summarise: IYO everyone on the thread is racist, except you and Harry. Funny that – I think you’re in rather dodgy company there with Harry.[/quote]
This is so true. Great post

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk/2009/jan/12/prince-harry-video-pakistani

An insight into Harry.

@Firstbellini

Harry was on film using racist slurs about people, so surely we do know he is (or was) a racist.

This.

Harry is such a massive hypocrite to be publicly accusing a family member of being a racist due to one remark made privately, which should have been dealt with privately at the time.

Harry should now be publicly apologising for his own previous racist remarks.

People can educate themselves and change. My own husband (who is black) admits he used say racist comments about white people due to his negative experiences of white people growing up and views held by some in his family. Harry's comments in the interview he did with Jane Goodall and subsequent words in press statements and the recent interview implies some reflection and soul searching has gone on.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/life-style/prince-harry-racism-meghan-markle-vogue-interview-september-issue-a9027266.html%3famp

This is not to excuse well known examples of racism from Harry.

William also attended a so called 'Colonials and Natives' party with an 'Out of Africa' theme dressed in a grass skirt around the same time as Harry's infamous party attendance dressed in Nazi uniform.

I would hope William also looks back on those parties and recognises that was not ok and has grown and educated himself.

I hope now the whole royal institution, British media and British public reflect on the issue of racism in this country which has already been highlighted by so many in the past and use it as an opportunity to grow and change.

@Choconuttolata

That’s an excellent point.

"Shit rebuttal from a stupid white man."
How is that appropriate?

Name a British institution where people of colour had not had to deal with systemic racism. Should BAME people have said the same about the police? 'Hey, you know they're racist, why do you want to be a detective?' My husband was one of the first black police officers in the UK, the first in his force, he had many roles during his service including being a detective. I've never thought to ask him why he wanted to do it.

Harry is now the equivalent of Prince Edward (who is son of the current Queen and will be the brother of the future King) in the current set up now that William has his own children.

Why are you not shouting that Prince Edward should have full time security and only gets it on official engagements? He is the son of the Queen. Harry will one day be a son of a King, but at the moment he is grandchild of the Queen.

Where' the outrage for Prince Edward's lack of security full time (sarcasm). If Prince Edward decided to live abroad would the taxpayer be paying for his security. No. No No no no ono....non no no

I think lots (including Harry) don't realise how far away from being important at royal events he is now that William has 3 children.

Same will happen to George's children in say 20 years as they will become direct in line and then Charlotte and Louis and their children will become irrelevant again.

Harry is already not important in terms of royal family - so it is disingenuous to try to blame racism. In fact, it is facile.

Eventually when William becomes King (ie. a long time in the future) then Harry would have become (but now won't) the equivalent of Princess Margaret (ie sibling of monarch) and Archie would have been same as Margaret's children in the current set-up, does that help understand how quickly Harry's relevance to royal family is dwindling?

Archie wouldn't have been the equivalent of Princess Margaret's children for a long while yet though, not until William comes to the throne.

Do you know who Princess Margaret's children are off the top of your head? I know some do, but I'm talking about the others that think Harry is a very important royal.....he's not. He's been indulged and thinks he is important, but he's not. Charles knows all this obviously but Harry can only see what he wants NOW I should get NOW.

It's not a fairy-tale, Harry lost his job of direct line to the throne which will now go through George, if something happened to George then it is Charlotte or Louis. Harry is irrelevant but the whole Diana love-in still means people think he's special.

Do you worry about Edward's security? Son of Queen, future brother of King. No didn't think so. Maybe now you'll notice what a fool Harry is making of himself.

Exactly Marmalade. Those of us who are older remember the Queens children as being important and have watched as they slip slowly down the line of succession into relative obscurity. It is hard for the monarchs second child ,feted and fawned on for a while and then the gradual withdrawal of the limelight . A psychiatrist would probably have a field day . Margaret , Andrew and now Harry , have all struggled to come to terms with their position.