To think that if the only black adult in your family says they have experienced racism...

[Overcastcloudy]

... it's counterproductive to send a white man out to say, We're very much not racist?

That just is never going to end well. Ask Ian Murray how it worked out for him.

I couldn't care much either way about the Royal Family. Just baffled at the headline of William saying this.

Money money money.....

@StillCoughingandLaughing

I usually give people the benefit of doubt. How odd that you don’t... or is it only in this instance because it is MM?

But why wouldn’t I give Prince Charles the benefit of the doubt? Or William, or Kate? I know none of them personally - so why would I give one the benefit of the doubt over the other?

If Kate said she experienced misogyny, sure, I would give her benefit of doubt. Why wouldn’t I?

If Charles or William said they experienced mental health issues, why would I doubt them?

I'm wondering whether one of the reasons people are questioning the mental health issue was because of the night she went out (Albert Hall event?) Meghan was apparently suicidal but she looked like a goddess. I know sometimes you have to put your game face on but there are limits surely?

Now you are a liar because you are pretty
🙄

@isitfridayyet1

People seem to forget that way before this current situation, Harry sent a statement addressed to the media to complain of racism. This obviously doesn't all come from Meaghan and what I can see on this thread is a distinct lack of his name being mentioned and any responsibility being laid in his shoulders. Misogyny is rife in the media and many women in this thread are doing a good job at spreading it here too. Why is Meghan getting all the hate, surely those angry at her should be equally as annoyed at Harry!

The entire thread, including the handful of posts just before yours, are critical of Harry. I am critical of Harry too. Because he and Meghan did that interview and refused to name the person who made the racist comments, his own brother is now being heckled by journalists calling him a racist while he's out doing his job. Visiting a school FFS.

I'm certainly not suggesting that.
It appears that there are many inconsistencies surrounding the whole mental health issue? Perhaps time lines are not accurate, a little bit Eric Morecambe, all the right notes not necessarily in the right order?

@Ihopeyourcakeisshit

I think people aren’t questioning/doubting her MH. Rather that Archie wasn’t going to be Prince because of concerns he’d be too brown and how what they said cast doubt on the whole family for the sake of protecting one racist.

As ambassadors for Mental Health, decide for yourselves whether they’re considering the MH of the rest of the family who has nothing to do with any skin colour conversations.

Harry should have called out the comments when he first heard them which was before they were married. He did criticize the press, but if he confronted the one who said ' concern' over a child's skin colour, then it was up to him to name and shame them personally.
Harry has done so many things wrong here.

It's all such a mess, I can't see how the family can ever be reunited after this, what a bloody shame.

The more you read on this - the more you can see that everyone has to take some blame for the position they are now in. No one is coming out well. The press are definitely responsible for creating stories and reporting untruths.

@the80sweregreat

Harry should have called out the comments when he first heard them which was before they were married. He did criticize the press, but if he confronted the one who said ' concern' over a child's skin colour, then it was up to him to name and shame them personally. Harry has done so many things wrong here.

Indeed, he told her then sat on comment until major interview on World stage..... Why not just deal with it at the time

Instead brother who is working rather than sat on backside doing the woe is me is being heckled to respond to his brothers comments

The racism on this thread is deeply depressing. The racists are out and all jacked up, eager to save Britain from the only black woman in an institution that exists to represent the UK.

And one who already quit because the racism was too much.

My favourites though, are those saying things like this poster did: Also, I don't understand why if an institution is so damaging and toxic you'd want your son to be a part of it by being a Prince.

Name a British institution where people of colour had not had to deal with systemic racism. Should BAME people have said the same about the police? 'Hey, you know they're racist, why do you want to be a detective?'

The government? 'Why would you want to be prime minister?'

Sport? 'You know what will chanted at you.'

Perhaps BAME people expect the toxic institution to change.

@Overcastcloudy

The racism on this thread is deeply depressing. The racists are out and all jacked up, eager to save Britain from the only black woman in an institution that exists to represent the UK.

And one who already quit because the racism was too much.

My favourites though, are those saying things like this poster did: Also, I don't understand why if an institution is so damaging and toxic you'd want your son to be a part of it by being a Prince.

Name a British institution where people of colour had not had to deal with systemic racism. Should BAME people have said the same about the police? 'Hey, you know they're racist, why do you want to be a detective?'

The government? 'Why would you want to be prime minister?'

Sport? 'You know what will chanted at you.'

Perhaps BAME people expect the toxic institution to change.

You're just doing what MM did tbh, no specific examples, just vaguely implying that everyone on the thread must be racist. Then you'll wonder why people don't want to engage with the discussion.

@Overcastcloudy

The racism on this thread is deeply depressing. The racists are out and all jacked up, eager to save Britain from the only black woman in an institution that exists to represent the UK.

And one who already quit because the racism was too much.

My favourites though, are those saying things like this poster did: Also, I don't understand why if an institution is so damaging and toxic you'd want your son to be a part of it by being a Prince.

Name a British institution where people of colour had not had to deal with systemic racism. Should BAME people have said the same about the police? 'Hey, you know they're racist, why do you want to be a detective?'

The government? 'Why would you want to be prime minister?'

Sport? 'You know what will chanted at you.'

Perhaps BAME people expect the toxic institution to change.

The UK has a history of racism and still does in a lot of powerful places. That is getting chipped away with each new generation. Would be amazing if quicker but I doubt that is possible. The exactly the same as American where they are living. None of that excuses how Harry and Meghan's account of things don't make sense and are factually in correct.

Plus the latest revelations about the fake British headlines Oprah used. 8 publications 5 were not British and three edited. One of those is so edited no British press has ever run a headline like it. You would have thought Oprah has researchers to check this stuff. Anyway the media are horrendous enough we don't need to make crap up.

@Overcastcloudy thankfully discerning people can see through your comments

very sad to see any opinions or discussions shut down as racist, you aren’t able to reason with any opinions different to your own about MM without accusing of racism and that’s poor

It is like that with so many things now. People don't understand that silencing opinion is dangerous.

‘My favourites though, are those saying things like this poster did: Also, I don't understand why if an institution is so damaging and toxic you'd want your son to be a part of it by being a Prince.

Name a British institution where people of colour had not had to deal with systemic racism. Should BAME people have said the same about the police? 'Hey, you know they're racist, why do you want to be a detective?'’

Because the royal family is not a necessary requirement of running a nation state; a police force is.

I don’t understand why anyone committed to equality would not renounce an elitist aristocratic title and wish for the abolition of the monarchy.

@Overcastcloudy
"The racists are out and all jacked up, eager to save Britain from the only black woman in an institution that exists to represent the UK."

What an awful lot of yourself you reveal with that awful statement.

Someone asked upthread why H&M would want to continue to be part of an institution they say is racist. IYO that is 100% proof that you have the moral high ground to bestow another "racist" upon the thread.

How does it work for YOU with Harry then? Is he racist or not when he says P**i and his other racial slurs? He’s never addressed in public his previous racist comments and behaviour. But YOU get to decide that people on the thread are racists. Harry can "learn" after being overtly and publicly racist (despite never making any comment other than “made mistakes” in the past - what mistakes? (Harry really likes vague).

The army decided Harry was racist and sent on a couple of courses - most people don’t need to enrol on a course to understand why racial slurs are not acceptable.

Please do answer as to whether Harry is racist or not. Otherwise, you’re doing exactly the same as Harry has done and just throwing "racist" confetti around to make you feel good about yourself.

If he isn’t racist IYO, then why not – I don’t think it’s as easy as that to undo being a racist, is it?

We can’t make assumptions he’s a reformed character based on marrying into a mixed race family. People on this thread who are BAME have also been told they’re racist.

A proven and public racist (Harry, that is if you're still not clear) telling me someone else is a racist will lose it’s authenticity (to coin a phrase).

Harry didn't take opportunity to educate the family member at the time of the comment "right at the beginning" of getting together with Meghan (as Harry said in the interview). Why didn't Harry resolve the issue then and explain why it wasn’t an ok question (not that we know who/what was actually said).

BAME people in my family understand and share what might be a clumsy way of phrasing something etc to someone at work etc - they don't damn people first. They like to think well of people and understand life is a journey and we learn along the way.

As I say, your quote above says an awful lot about you.

So to summarise: IYO everyone on the thread is racist, except you and Harry. Funny that – I think you’re in rather dodgy company there with Harry.

@Firstbellini

‘My favourites though, are those saying things like this poster did: Also, I don't understand why if an institution is so damaging and toxic you'd want your son to be a part of it by being a Prince.

Name a British institution where people of colour had not had to deal with systemic racism. Should BAME people have said the same about the police? 'Hey, you know they're racist, why do you want to be a detective?'’

Because the royal family is not a necessary requirement of running a nation state; a police force is.

I don’t understand why anyone committed to equality would not renounce an elitist aristocratic title and wish for the abolition of the monarchy.

Thats a good point. The people from ethnic minorities who are joining the police are forcing change from within, and it's brave of them to do so. MM and PH had the opportunity to do that in the RF, but they left instead.

A large of the RFs role is supposed to be to support communities, like when Prince Charles visited the vaccine centre at Jesus House the other day to encourage vaccine take up amongst the BAME community. Wouldn't it have made more of an impact for a royal person of colour to make that visit instead? MM could have made a really positive change in this country for BAME people, for all of us really.

This country has been propping up the RF for years, and they give back in their own way. She seems to have thought she would just join the RF, become a Princess and a mega celeb when she had no interest in even living in Britain, let alone getting involved in royal duties in British communities and making a change in the lives of British people. Very disappointing of Harry too. He was so involved in the Invictus Games, such a champion for sport for injured veterans, and people with disabilities, and it did make a difference to have someone so high profile at those events and really caring about them.

The situation, and people feeling disappointed is about more than racism, but some people just can't see that.

This is a short clip, but I would urge people to listen to Toni Morrison's words and reflect on them.

This constant gaslighting of the experience of black, Asian and other ethnic minorities experience of racism in this country and refusal to see the racism in the media towards Meghan Markle which ranged from overt to subtle, alongside that on social media which included death threats is disturbing.

Regardless of who had the conversation with Harry or Meghan about their concerns over how dark Archie's skin would be (and it could have been several people or conversations), the point is those conversations were had according to both Meghan and Harry. The issue of racism within the royal family, potentially the staff surrounding them and the lack of support for Meghan in regards to the racist abuse she experienced in the media and on social media needs to be properly addressed and until it is people will rightly continue to ask questions of royal family members who are seen in public.

@Ihopeyourcakeisshit

I'm wondering whether one of the reasons people are questioning the mental health issue was because of the night she went out (Albert Hall event?) Meghan was apparently suicidal but she looked like a goddess. I know sometimes you have to put your game face on but there are limits surely?

Chester Beddington's wife posted a video of him laughing with his friends hours before he killed himself. Depressed people can be masters of faking it. But I look at photos of Megan from that night and she very much does not look ok.

@GreenSlide if you be honest which obviously you're not as you're clearly biased about Meghan most negative coverage and conversations on Mumsnet have been about her not Harry. Please stop gaslighting is not a good look.

I am really not a fan of MM and think she uses cards to play a game on other issues but when I saw the clip of her that night I did think she looked like she was trying her best to keep it together. By her own accounts of not knowing what she was letting herself in for or knowing anything at all about the RF which I don’t believe one bit) Harry didn’t prepare her properly for how much of a straight jacket she’d be in by joining the RF.

[quote isitfridayyet1]@GreenSlide if you be honest which obviously you're not as you're clearly biased about Meghan most negative coverage and conversations on Mumsnet have been about her not Harry. Please stop gaslighting is not a good look.[/quote]
Oh how am I gaslighting, don't be so ridiculous. Why don't you actually contribute to the conversation rather than just slinging mud at people.

No one knows exactly who said or what was said, but if Harry who had a penchant for calling others extremely derogatory slurs in the past and getting away with it, he shouldn’t have said anything to Meghan and instead have a stern talk with that person, senior or not! .
I sometimes felt sorry for Meghan at Royal gatherings , she always looked so uncomfortable , I bet she keeps playing in her mind all the things Harry told her, A said this about us, B said this about us.