To think that if the only black adult in your family says they have experienced racism...

[Overcastcloudy]

... it's counterproductive to send a white man out to say, We're very much not racist?

That just is never going to end well. Ask Ian Murray how it worked out for him.

I couldn't care much either way about the Royal Family. Just baffled at the headline of William saying this.

@Sprining

Are you saying that minority women who experience racism as well as misogyny make the me too movement less powerful?

Is the me too only for white women?

I am saying people with the attitude that it is some kind of a fashionable bandwagon to jump on. Rather than a way of highlighting the subject matter to do good. The same as what you are doing with this thread. Racism is a serious thing. That needs taken seriously. You two are hardly champions of cause. All you do is tell anyone with a different view they are racist. T basically accuses black women of being traitors. Nice work guys!

@Sprining

I’m sorry, your motives will be questioned if you opine that some one who has mental health issues is making it up. Disbelieving people’s MH problems is considered a vile thing, given 1 in 4 people do suffer MH issues.

Similarly, why on earth would you opine that a minority woman who says she experienced racism in the most white and rigid institution is lying? Majority of BAME say they have suffered racism. Do you disbelieve all of them? Just because you feel you have a right up an ‘opinion’?

And if you are a minority woman I am Prince Charles

Who are you talking too?

[quote Topmum66]@Tzigane that is your opinion and as a fellow BAME I respect that.

And I disagree. I discern an ulterior motive in withholding the name. It’s poured shame and doubt on all of them.

I would 100% out the person who disgustingly was ‘concerned’ about Archie if he were my son and let them face the consequences. And there’s no way you’d catch me moaning about his title on one hand and saying it was a hateful, racist institution on the other.[/quote]
Xpost - fwiw I do actually respect your opinion too even if I don't agree with it.

I don't really see it's poured 'shame', there's racism all around. If there's a bit in the royal family so what. It's hardly surprising given their background and life experiences, the palace is hardly a multicultural environment.

“I am saying people with the attitude that it is some kind of a fashionable bandwagon to jump on. “

Ah, so racism is trivial and people saying they experienced racism are trivialising the metoo movement. Because you know, sexism is the worst thing that can happen to a woman.

I was referring to @Topmum66 first and then to you, @Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum

And waving acknowledgment to the insightful posts of @Tzigane inbetween 😊

I'm a complete outsider to both uk and usa culture, but as a relatively intelligent human being: watching that interview made me cringe inside.. Meghan sounded so fake! That slow motion manner, soft voice 🤮 ugrh! Besides, there are MOST CERTAINLY very few countries in the whole world that are LESS racists than the UK. UK is class obsessed, very repressed society that exports its citizens' passionate screaming and jumping off balconies over to Spain, it has its flows etc but it really doesn't seem to be particularly racist, at least not when you compare it to France, Germany, Austria, Italy, Spain, Eastern Europe, Russia, USA etc.

@Sprining

Give over. Why do I have to take as gospel MM’s words because I am BAME? In this particular instance we are dealing with a narcissist in my opinion, capable of lying. My opinion on MM.

Also, how typically hypocritic to be able to tell me not to question someone’s claims to MH (which I did not btw) and then tell me and guarantee I’m lying about my ethnicity. Why would you doubt a fellow BAME and accuse me of lying. Shame on you. People like you do more harm than good but see themselves as virtuous. Your type of argument doesn’t help the cause of eliminating real racism at all.

I have no ‘cause’.

I just don’t like anyone being bullied and vilified.

Are you a mental health expert? And a mind reader at the same time? It must be amazing to be able to diagnose someone as a narcissist without knowing meeting or knowing them at all

None of us know what happened in the family before or after the wedding. We don’t know anything about them other the stories created in the press. Hopefully the family will sort things out quietly in private.
The best part of the tv programme was Oprah - she is always brilliant.

@Sprining

Ahh now I see why you like MM.

You feel free to bully people by calling them liars and casting doubt on their ethnicity. Implying they are racist bc they don’t take MM words for gospel. But you dislike bullying. Got it

I have not bullied anyone in fact quite the reverse, and from people who say they defend BAME. Ironic.

[quote Topmum66]@Tzigane you lost me at accusing me of being a racist, then inversely accusing me of vitriolic abuse when you are openly abusing me and judging me.

But anyway, let me break it down for you so that hopefully you can stop your relentless quest to silence my opinion of your beloved Meghan.

There are things called opinions. I am BAME and am entitled to an opinion different to yours. You see? It’s quite simple really. You see, you labelling me and other BAME people who do not agree with you racist on their opinion of MM is incredibly ignorant and offensive.

Falling back on ‘but you weren’t there’ is very weak. Because neither were you. Yet you still have your opinion. I am not calling you any names because of your opinion but I am calling you racist on your words to me.[/quote]
I've certainly not abused you, I have judged you for judging someone else's experience of racism, absolutely.

I'm not sure why you're implying M is 'beloved' - I have no feelings for her at all, I don't know her. If anything you come across as far more of a royalist, far more invested in the RF as an institution.

I have never said you weren't entitled to an opinion, but I'm entitled to disagree with it. It's the way you expressed yourself that came across as offensive not the fact of having a different opinion.

You not having been there is key: you claim with certainty you she is not telling the truth. None of us know for sure.

I wouldn't dispute someone else's experience of racism because I think it's disrespectful.

Whether you choose to believe them or not, M and Harry seem to be believe it, it had its part to play in their reasons for leaving the country and rescinded their titles.

@PomegranateQueen

What else was he supposed to say?

I'm not surprised he hasn't spoken to Harry, if one of my in laws made an allegation like that about my relatives in such a public way, it would take a while for me cool down and have a reasoned conversation tbh.

We are heartbroken that members of our family felt that way. We love them dearly, honestly do not feel the family is racist, but take all suggestions that they are seriously. I have been educating myself about racism in light of the events of the last year, and look forward to continuing that dialogue.

That is what he could have said. But since he is probably the one who said it, I guess that would be too much to hope for.

“You feel free to bully people by calling them liars”

Oh the irony if it. By someone who called MM a liar for talking about her experiences of racism

@Sprining nice try there, but no

The facts are, my opinion is she’s lying

And because of that you’ve assumed I’m not BAME and accused me of lying. Implying that all BAME must agree with Megan.

The irony is you, TELLING me that I’m not BAME, AFTER you berate me for doubting her. Lol. Now that’s irony.

I do not doubt for a second MM has experienced racism even as a pampered privileged self-absorbed princess that she is. However I don’t believe her narrative of racism by the RF.

@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum

Racism is a serious thing. That needs taken seriously.

Oh great a bit of whitesplaining, that's helpful.

T basically accuses black women of being traitors. Nice work guys!

Where did I accuse anyone of being a traitor let alone black women in general?

I won’t let anyone bully me into what I should think. Now with that I’m off for some wine.

@Sprining

“You feel free to bully people by calling them liars”

Oh the irony if it. By someone who called MM a liar for talking about her experiences of racism

Quite. Angry accusations of being a liar and a narcissist, of someone she has never met.

@Topmum66 so do you think Harry is lying as he was the first one who heard the racist comment and then told Meghan. Or are you following the sexist newspapers by blaming the woman in the relationship for everything?

I'm just catching up on this thread, it's an interesting discussion and I was just going to lurk but got the posting 'urge' when I got to this:

I really don't care who said it, I don't think it's relevant

You can't brush off a key piece of missing information, it's massively relevant and without that information nothing can be addressed to anyone's satisfaction.

For example, say you work for a large corporation and unfortunately, one day you get into a conversation with a colleague where a racist comment is directed at you. Quite rightly you take it to your HR department and make a complaint, only you refuse to say who exactly made the comment to you, just that the person involved works in the IT department. What/how on earth are HR department supposed to address this complaint when you won't name the staff member. The first thing HR will say is without names we are powerless to do anything.

By not giving a name it devalues what is a serious allegation.

There is no halfway house on this, if you are going accuse someone of being racist then you have to have the backbone to go the whole way and name the person. Don't make it vague that the finger of suspicion falls across a whole family and then you just sit back and watch the s**t hit the fan. That's just a bit twisted if you ask me.

When you do something like that then you can't expect speculation to just be a one way street.

What I think is, Harry is being a coward if what was said to him was truly racist. It’s his son and he should defend it not by pussyfooting around and letting his wife give a different account.

It’s extraordinary how he’s willing to sacrifice his own family to protect a racist

*him

And I also think he’s another hypocrite for not bringing up and apologising for his own real racism to his wife and to Oprah.

I usually give people the benefit of doubt. How odd that you don’t... or is it only in this instance because it is MM?

But why wouldn’t I give Prince Charles the benefit of the doubt? Or William, or Kate? I know none of them personally - so why would I give one the benefit of the doubt over the other?

People seem to forget that way before this current situation, Harry sent a statement addressed to the media to complain of racism. This obviously doesn't all come from Meaghan and what I can see on this thread is a distinct lack of his name being mentioned and any responsibility being laid in his shoulders.
Misogyny is rife in the media and many women in this thread are doing a good job at spreading it here too. Why is Meghan getting all the hate, surely those angry at her should be equally as annoyed at Harry!