To think that if the only black adult in your family says they have experienced racism...

[Overcastcloudy]

... it's counterproductive to send a white man out to say, We're very much not racist?

That just is never going to end well. Ask Ian Murray how it worked out for him.

I couldn't care much either way about the Royal Family. Just baffled at the headline of William saying this.

You cannot in English law or the rules of the church of England have one marriage and then another however if you are Christian. There is a law that says the civil and religious bits must be together in the church of England (and Catholics and I think jews too but definitely not hindus and muslims - indeed I had one cient who said his wife thought they were married under English law as they had had a religious hindu or muslim wedding but they were not which helped his financial position considerably were they ever to split up).

So there is no doubt MM did not marry before the royal wedding. However she is not a lawyer and probably did not understand that was legally impossible.

To me the “marriage in our backyard” thing underscores how they don’t realise what privilege they have. Not many people would be able to get their local vicar to come around and do a nice private garden ceremony where you exchange vows ahead of your church ceremony, let alone the AoC. In fact most vicars would question your understanding of the purpose of the marriage ceremony and invite you along to their “marriage preparation” course that most CofE churches do.

I don’t see it as overly privileged but their wanting a part of their wedding to be in private.

@Xenia

You cannot in English law or the rules of the church of England have one marriage and then another however if you are Christian. There is a law that says the civil and religious bits must be together in the church of England (and Catholics and I think jews too but definitely not hindus and muslims - indeed I had one cient who said his wife thought they were married under English law as they had had a religious hindu or muslim wedding but they were not which helped his financial position considerably were they ever to split up).

So there is no doubt MM did not marry before the royal wedding. However she is not a lawyer and probably did not understand that was legally impossible.

Xenia I love your clear factual posts.

Going back to the the original point if the thread. If there is only one black adult in the (large, extended) family, and they have experienced racism , what is the appropriate response?
Should all members admit they're racist?
Or should they not comment at all?

Although I have to admit I was surprised William did answer the questions put to him. Often journalists shout out questions (usually to politicians) and the person simply walks off and ignores them.

If there is only one black adult in the (large, extended) family, and they have experienced racism , what is the appropriate response?

Well, you could at least mumble something around you are sorry they felt that way and the family will need to reflect and learn. Not flat out deny their lived experience, because that makes you look arrogant and dismissive.

^that is the sort of thing I would expect in a prepared statement....which is why I was surprised he gave an immediate answer.

@HunterHearstHelmsley

A lot of what she (and he) said during the interview is false. I don't know if I'd say a lie, but clearly incorrect. I can't see why she (and he) should be believed on this issue when other statements during the interview have no basis in fact.

Obviously, William should have come out and said they're all just a massive bunch of racists

@HunterHearstHelmsley No, none of what they've said is false. You are lying.

@Xenia What you say is true - as I remember from my family law module. However, when she says 'married', I didn't interpret her statement in the legal sense.

For myself, I had a civil marriage in 2015 but am having my religious wedding when it ends. I am not marrying again but my marriage would be entered in the register of Jewish weddings. I know other reform jews who had separate religious and civil ceremonies, as they wanted the English marriage certificate but also wanted a destination wedding (so did the religious ceremony overseas and flew the rabbi out). I still tell people that 'its my wedding and I am getting married' even though they have known me by my married name for years, because there is no other way to say it.

It is possible that meghan wanted a different wedding to the taxpayer paid one so saw the tiny ceremony as her 'real wedding' regardless of legal ramifications.

He responded to a question, he wasn’t sent out to do that. I think he responded in the only way he could!

I have mixed feelings on the whole thing. We have mixed race children in our family. My cousin is very blonde and very pale, almost albino, her ex partner is from North Africa. We often discussed, before she was born, how she would look, not concerned just intrigued, as with any baby. But to be “concerned” about how dark a baby will be, as they reported Is completely different.

@Xenia *would be having my religious wedding when the pandemic ends! as unable to have more than 30 guests and no overseas guests at the moment.

@Xenia

She did not get married 3 days before her wedding. That is not possible in English law or the rules of the Church of England. However she might not know what "married" means as she is not a lawyer so some of these things might just be that she did not know or chose not to check before the interview.

This has already been covered.

In the U.K. we would call the private ceremony a 'blessing'. In the US the ceremony would be regarded as a wedding because the rules are different.

It is possible that meghan wanted a different wedding to the taxpayer paid one so saw the tiny ceremony as her 'real wedding' regardless of legal ramifications.

Exactly. I think in their situation I would regard the private ceremony as the 'real' wedding.

But again, what counts in the UK as a blessing would be legally recognised as wedding in the US irrespective of the fact it took place in the U.K. Their rules around weddings are completely different.

So as I said not her fault - she called it a wedding even though it was not.

I agree that English law is currently very unfair on Christians and Jews. I think we should change the law so that weddings under any religion in the UK must have the civil part at the same time (other than when you are taking on a 2nd or later wife and are polygamous). My daughter has been banned form marrying since 19 Dec 2220 to 29 March 2021 in London whether religiously or civil marriage and her civil/church marriage is in mid April when she can have a marriage and will have 13 guests ( a very stingy number given how many can go to distanced funerals and church services). However were we not Christians then a religious marriage could take place (subject to the various rules about how many people can meet I suppose) with the civil bit later. It is one reason legally that Stamford Hill case was interesting with the large wedding party during the London lockdown.

I just checked the law but only quickly found this which seems to miss out loads of different types of Christians.... www.orj.co.uk/married-but-not-married-is-my-religious-marriage-recognised-in-the-uk/

MM probably should have gone through her possible answers about married 3 days before with someone (not Harry who probably has little knowledge about the Church of England and marriage rules). The problem is this is gist to the mill for her critics. So checking it first would have been a good idea. She could have said "not many people know this but we had a special religious blessing 2 days before our marriage".

it is not her fault but checking things in advance can be a good idea.

So as I said not her fault - she called it a wedding even though it was not

A wedding doesn't have to be legal to be a wedding.

‘There were already countries within the Commonwealth seeking independence and/or looking to remove the Queen as their head of State before the interview so to blame Meghan is ridiculous.’

I am not blaming her! I am not pro-commonwealth. Her talk will have an impact on the commonwealth and I am wondering what her position on it is, given that she has chosen to keep the title of Duchess.

But they said she didnt know what questions were going to be asked so she wouldnt have been able to prepare a better worded answer

MM probably should have gone through her possible answers about married 3 days before with someone (not Harry who probably has little knowledge about the Church of England and marriage rules). The problem is this is gist to the mill for her critics.

It’s clear that there are many out there determined to find fault with every single thing she does or says. So why bother? She’d drive herself mad trying to ‘criticise proof’ her statements.

The only thing I’m getting from this little storm in a tea cup is that the Brits can’t seem to cope with any kind of cultural differences from their own norms.

@TwilightSkies

Meghan could claim to be a rabbit and people would believe it.

Do you think she hasn’t experienced racism from the royal family? Why would she lie?

Well she's lied and twisted the truth on so many other things... This would be the most damaging thing to say and she knows it.

could be Prince William genuinely wasn't aware any racism had occurred towards Meghan from his family.

Maybe it did happen when he wasn't there to see it? Maybe it didn't . We don't have all the facts, we weren't there either!

@HunterHearstHelmsley No, none of what they've said is false. You are lying.

They both said they expected Archie to be a Prince from birth. Even if Meghan had misunderstood, Harry would not have. If I, as a private citizen, knew that the Letters Patent only applied to William’s children, Harry sure as hell would have known it too.

When suggesting Archie would not even be made a Prince once Charles is on the throne, Meghan said, “It’s not their right to take it away”, citing the precedent set by George V. This is 100% wrong. If the sovereign can decide that only male-line grandchildren can be princes or princesses, the sovereign can also revert or otherwise change that rule (as the current sovereign did for William’s children).

Two falsehoods right there.

So you don’t believe that someone of mixed race experienced racism in the most old fashioned of British institutions that is all white?
I wonder why?

One of the signs of racism is ‘othering’, being suspicious of their motives and looking to disbelieve and discredit them.

While affording benefit of doubt and sympathy for those like you

So you don’t believe that someone of mixed race experienced racism in the most old fashioned of British institutions that is all white?

And in which a notable member has gone on the record with numerous racial slurs, including calling people ‘slitty eyed’?

And where racist brooches are hauled out on first meeting the mixed race new member of the family?

Yes, absolutely unbelievable that anyone would experience racism there. Utterly inconceivable.

Her talk will have an impact on the commonwealth and I am wondering what her position on it is, given that she has chosen to keep the title of Duchess.

You do realise that there are minorities from the Commonwealth who live in the U.K. They already know and/or have faced racism in the U.K. so what she said is not surprising in the slightest. She’s only validated what many minorities and immigrants already knew. They’ve also seen how she has been treated by the British media and tabloids as well as know how minorities and immigrants are talked and written about here. Regardless of her position and feelings, she’s not done anything other than say she has experienced too and no one can refute that no matter how hard people are trying too.

*to