To think that if the only black adult in your family says they have experienced racism...

[Overcastcloudy]

... it's counterproductive to send a white man out to say, We're very much not racist?

That just is never going to end well. Ask Ian Murray how it worked out for him.

I couldn't care much either way about the Royal Family. Just baffled at the headline of William saying this.

So as I said not her fault - she called it a wedding even though it was not.

She called it a wedding because in the US it would be a wedding.
And, if H & M have religious or spiritual beliefs, they would be married in the eyes of God. The legal aspect in that case is not the most important.

The only thing I’m getting from this little storm in a tea cup is that the Brits can’t seem to cope with any kind of cultural differences from their own norms
It could just as well be turned around in a generic stereotypical way to say that Americans can't cope with the idea that other countries operate under different rules and customs.

If Meghan was posting on here, she'd be told she didn't have an in-law problem, she had a DH problem:

• He didn't appear to deal with the family member that made the racist comment at the time "that's inappropriate/racist/out of order, don't ever say that again" and came home and told her about it instead. If he wanted to share that Uncle X was being a racist tosser again, he's got other family members to vent to.
• Despite having had treatment for MH problems himself, and knowing it could be done discreetly/privately, he apparently didn't try very hard to get help for Meghan when she needed it.
• He didn't explain properly the set up of the Royal Family and the Royal Households, apparently leaving Meghan to try and get help from HR, who could not help her because she's not an employee, like the footmen, cooks, stable staff, accountants, PR bods etc etc who work for them.

Having said that, Meghan reminds me very much of someone in my family who adds a layer of exaggeration and drama to everything that life brings them. I could imagine half the posts in AIBU to be written by my family member "shaking and sobbing", and its exhausting to deal with and makes it hard to provide support. So it's hard to know what to think. I do think Meghan has had a tough time, as has Harry. I can well imagine that inappropriate and racist comments were made within the family, and that the strict boundaries of etiquette and knowing what things are done and not done must be a nightmare to negotiate if you're not born to that world. But I can't see what they wanted to achieve with their Oprah interview - do they want apologies, closure, reconciliation...?

It could just as well be turned around in a generic stereotypical way to say that Americans can't cope with the idea that other countries operate under different rules and customs.

Ok, quick refresher. All she did was use the word ‘wedding’ when a Brit would have used the word ‘blessing’. The frothers need to calm the fuck down.

The royals love their meaningless titles don’t they

They do indeed - and it's precisely because they're so meaningless that I'm surprised H&M seem to care so much about keeping them

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Yep especially Meghan seems obsessed with titles for someone that thinks it’s a racist hateful institution

[quote StillCoughingandLaughing]**@HunterHearstHelmsley No, none of what they've said is false. You are lying.

They both said they expected Archie to be a Prince from birth. Even if Meghan had misunderstood, Harry would not have. If I, as a private citizen, knew that the Letters Patent only applied to William’s children, Harry sure as hell would have known it too.

When suggesting Archie would not even be made a Prince once Charles is on the throne, Meghan said, “It’s not their right to take it away”, citing the precedent set by George V. This is 100% wrong. If the sovereign can decide that only male-line grandchildren can be princes or princesses, the sovereign can also revert or otherwise change that rule (as the current sovereign did for William’s children).

Two falsehoods right there.[/quote]
No they didn't.

H&M were not upset because Archie was not a prince from birth. They were upset that the convention by which Archie would become a prince once Charles became king, was changed, to ensure he would not. That would have been Charles' decision.

Meghan said:

“There’s a convention that when you’re the grandchild of the monarch, so when Harry’s dad becomes king, automatically Archie and our next baby would become prince or princess"

“I think even with that convention I’m talking about, while I was pregnant, they said they want to change the convention for Archie.”

She said it was “not their right to take it away”.

The decision was not publicised, it appears that they were told privately before or after Archie was born.

The difference between a wedding and a blessing is a big deal in religious and legal terms, and not just for the British.

Presumably it is a massive deal for the Americans or they wouldn’t make up half of the world’s anulments in order to have weddings rather than blessings.

Ok, quick refresher. All she did was use the word ‘wedding’ when a Brit would have used the word ‘blessing’. The frothers need to calm the fuck down.

Exactly. A blessing in the US would be considered as parents giving their approval of their children’s partner asking to marry their children or informing that they are going to ask.

Presumably it is a massive deal for the Americans or they wouldn’t make up half of the world’s anulments in order to have weddings rather than blessings.

And, because language is fun and imprecise like this, they use the words interchangeably.

Which, for some reason, the Brits cabbie cope with.

It’s very amusing from the outside, let me tell you.

My inference is that Charles wants to slim down the monarchy to ensure its survival. That led to him deciding to recognise William's kids as princes when he takes the throne but not Harry's.

Personally I think that kind of distinction between brothers is not wise. Particularly given that one of them is married to a woman who is not white and is being bullied and harassed in the press. Get rid of all the extraneous princess Michaels and Eugenies etc, but the two sons of the king should surely be treated equally.

(Or as in my view as a republican, get rid of the whole thing).

I find it helpful to use language precisely, so that people understand what it is I am trying to convey to them.

The difference between a wedding and a blessing is a big deal in religious and legal terms, and not just for the British.

You've missed the point. If what we would refer as the 'blessing' had taken place in the US it would have been recognised as a wedding.

I find it helpful to use language precisely, so that people understand what it is I am trying to convey to them.

I find remembering that Meghan was in the States not the U.K. during this interview so she did use the language precisely for where she was.

I swear some of you act like there isn’t language differences within the U.K. itself. Countless threads about regional and national differences but want to nitpick over the term wedding and blessing.

The key difference is surely between marriage and blessing anyway. A blessing is not a marriage ceremony.

I find it helpful to use language precisely, so that people understand what it is I am trying to convey to them.

You knock yourself out. But perhaps give a little leeway to others so they don’t feel the need to run their comments through a lawyer before putting them out there, hmm?

Regardless of which country Meghan is in, she’s referring to ceremonies carried out by a sacramental church. Millions of people in the US and U.K. belong to sacramental churches, and the meaning of marriage and blessing in those sacramental churches does not vary by country.

Regardless of which country Meghan is in, she’s referring to ceremonies carried out by a sacramental church. Millions of people in the US and U.K. belong to sacramental churches, and the meaning of marriage and blessing in those sacramental churches does not vary by country.

In many States regardless of vows were exchanged in a church or not it is still referred to as a wedding not a blessing.

*if

‘In many States regardless of vows were exchanged in a church or not it is still referred to as a wedding not a blessing.’

As it is in the U.K., as many people have civil weddings and civil marriages.

But that isn’t what Meghan had.

@Thewordgame

He hasn’t spoken to his brother yet, even though his sister in law revealed she was suicidal at one point???? And experienced clear racism whilst living in the UK. He is a hypocrite if he supports mental health charities when he cannot even be arsed supporting his own brother.

I don't actually blame Prince William.

Maybe h and m are right..maybe the RF are right. None of us mere mortals will ever know. We can only surmise.

H and m seem v happy right now. The RF is clearly in shock at the allegations. I do not believe in ever washing your dirty linen in public, and I think how h and m have gone about things has caused even more upset. Even if they are 100pc right, all this could have been handled privately.

@StillCoughingandLaughing

“I think even with that convention I’m talking about, while I was pregnant, they said they want to change the convention for Archie.” She said it was “not their right to take it away”.

“I think” covers a multitude of sins. It allows to make a claim without anyone being able to call you an outright liar - and if it IS proven you were wrong, all you have to do is say “I never said it was definite - that was the situation as I saw it at the time”, or similar.

As for it was “not their right to take it away”, that is just plain wrong. Meghan made several references to the protocol set in place by George V in 1917 - very specific for someone who claimed she didn’t even Google the royal family before joining them; almost as if she’d been briefed somehow. Yet apparently, she has failed to grasp that if one sovereign can lay down rules regarding who is and isn’t entitled to be a Prince or Princess, another sovereign (i.e. Charles) can change them.

Great post

. it's counterproductive to send a white man out to say, We're very much not racist?
nah he should have said " Actually it is my brother who likes a uniform"

@phoenixrosehere

I find it helpful to use language precisely, so that people understand what it is I am trying to convey to them.

I find remembering that Meghan was in the States not the U.K. during this interview so she did use the language precisely for where she was.

I swear some of you act like there isn’t language differences within the U.K. itself. Countless threads about regional and national differences but want to nitpick over the term wedding and blessing.

This isn’t like some people calling a bread roll a cob and others calling it a bap. There is a distinct legal difference between wedding and a blessing.

I think even with that convention I’m talking about, while I was pregnant, they said they want to change the convention for Archie
Except it's been established that Charles had been considered changing long before Harry met her, so isn't this a case of Meghan maybe taking things personally when it never was in the first place?