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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that violence against women is a hate crime?

137 replies

Wandawomble · 11/03/2021 08:28

AIBU - it’s not a hate crime
YAIBU - it is a hate crime

I think so many of us are upset by the constant news of women being assaulted, raped and murdered - and the horrific statistics about the majority of young women in the UK having been sexually harassed. (Guardian link below)

I am a BAME woman and I experience misogyny in the same way that I experience racism, if anything the misogyny is worse. I do not feel safe walking home late, I have had multiple attacks on my physical body by men because of my sex and multiple attacks of my body because I am brown.
It is no different except with being a diminutive female - I have been more easily overpowered and the sexual assaults have been much much worse. So how is this not a hate crime?

I was pulled into a strangers car on the way to school once and assaulted because of my female body. Can you imagine how I feel about my daughter walking to school? I do not understand how any person can not see this as hate towards women. It is certainly not love.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/10/almost-all-young-women-in-the-uk-have-been-sexually-harassed-survey-finds

WHO says 1 in 3 women globally experience domestic violence. www.who.int/en/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/violence-against-women

OP posts:
Blackberrycream · 11/03/2021 10:06

As a mother of two boys, I make every effort to make sure that they grow up with good attitudes towards others. I really worry though about the society they are growing up in.
They are growing up in a society with violent porn in wide distribution, tv shows that use the violent murder of women as entertainment and casual sexism in everyday conversation. I have started to look differently at a lot of tv. I watched and enjoyed The Fall ( just to pick one example) when it came out. I find that kind of drama really problematic now. The appetite for true crime drama is also disturbing. I remember when that kind of interest was catered to with magazines and it was seen as pretty seedy. Now it’s prime time entertainment.

Coffeeandcocopops · 11/03/2021 10:07

@Whatcouldshehavebeen

I see it more as aggression? A mother presumably reared them, so I don't understand how so many can be so violent. I've been the victim of criminal behaviour from men several times. I think that boys are reared differently to girls. They also have different hormones, different levels of strength and height. A power thing too maybe? Boys are not being reared to be nice.
As a mother of boys I have to disagree here. You can’t blame mothers. My boys around me are gentlemen. However I don’t know what they are like with a group of their mates. But I do know that Not one single man I know would call out their mates.
LaceyBetty · 11/03/2021 10:13

Those saying all crimes are hate crimes need to education themselves. A "hate crime" is a specific crime in law and one definitions from CPS is:

The term 'hate crime' can be used to describe a range of criminal behaviour where the perpetrator is motivated by hostility or demonstrates hostility towards the victim's disability, race, religion, sexual orientation or transgender identity.

Karmakarmachameleon · 11/03/2021 10:17

Surely all crimes are hate crimes.
I dont understand what that even means?

There’s actually a little-known website called Google which lets you find out about these things. But since you haven’t heard of it, here’s a link: www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/hco/hate-crime/what-is-hate-crime/

Shamoo · 11/03/2021 10:20

I completely agree OP. It is a hate crime and it is so distressing that overall society just doesn’t really care. I read the tweets by men showing surprise at what’s happened and just wonder what world they have been looking at to not have seen how awful it is for so many women in so many ways. I consider myself very very lucky in this area, but can list loads of horrible moments from men looking back through my life. It’s a global pandemic.

However, the suggestion of a PP that some people thinking catcalling is ok is because of trans women is a surprising one to me. I know plenty of women (who are not trans women) who have always enjoyed it and see no issue with it, and that has absolutely nothing to do with the trans movement. To be clear, I loathe it. Absolutely loathe it, and cannot understand how anybody thinks it’s ok. But there are a LOT of people who genuinely think it is a compliment, and have done for years and years, not just trans women (and not because of trans women).

loopyapp · 11/03/2021 10:22

I would susiect the reason is that it would be argued the men that perpetrate these crimes do so against women because they're heterosexual and so their natural victim choice would be female.

If they were gay their victims would be men and as they're are statistically more straight men than gay it stands to reason that there are more women victims.

Personally any DA or DV regardless of sex of either party should be classed as a hate crime.

HeronLanyon · 11/03/2021 10:25

YANBU - is is a hate crime. We are hated/discriminated by men the world over. It’s a hate enabled by power.

AvocadoBathroom · 11/03/2021 10:26

Boys are not being told to #BeKind constantly.

Very very succinct, faux feminism commentary @WendyTestaburger - I see it all the time on my FB, recent example - women cheering for choking when I posted an article about young girls being choked against their will. Women not giving a shit about how other women, especially the old and the young, are affected by their supposedly progressive acceptance that anything goes.
Women not caring they aren't represented in the ludicrous SNP Hate Crime Bill. Women not caring that their words to describe themselves in law are being challenged with no thought as to what that actually means.

If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a woman's face— forever. Only now we have women cheering for it as their right to be abused.

Hailtomyteeth · 11/03/2021 10:34

Violence against women is a hate crime.

Rape-chat is hate.

Drag is also hate.

Young 'woke' women in particular are terminally stupid but their openness to harm is detremental to us all.

Hailtomyteeth · 11/03/2021 10:35

Detrimental? It's bad for us, anyway.

anamazingfind · 11/03/2021 10:37

I think there may be some misogyny in some male on female crimes, but to label it specifically as a hate crime is devaluing the term, and does a disservice to minorities who really need this kept specific.

What difference would it make anyway? Does adding hate to a rape charge raise its tariff?

Misogyny isn't a crime and that's what you're saying it should be

YABU.

Janeteapot · 11/03/2021 10:39

I would go further and call it terrorism.

TrialOfStyle · 11/03/2021 10:41

YANBU. It's interesting looking at places like Twitter, where you can clearly see hate against women is not a crime. If you post anything deemed homophobic, racist, transphobic - it's deleted. If you post rape threats they are allowed to remain. And until hate towards woman is treated as an actual crime, there will be no change on social media platforms.

TrialOfStyle · 11/03/2021 10:43

What difference would it make anyway? Does adding hate to a rape charge raise its tariff?

It means that when someone is abusive towards women in virtue of them being a woman, they can be sufficiently reprimanded. If I make a racist remark I will most definitely lose my job due to hate crime. Making a sexist remark is not treated the same. Why is one okay and the other not?

rabbitcow · 11/03/2021 10:44

YANBU. Society teaches men to see us as nothing but a collection of holes for them to own (and as useful skivvies I suppose). I know there are lots and lots of decent men out there who don't think like that but it's there in their heads, whether they are aware of it or not, and it comes out in lots of different ways, some trivial, some not. Men need to start being brave enough to challenge themselves and their thinking.

LaceyBetty · 11/03/2021 10:44

Does adding hate to a rape charge raise its tariff?

Yes.

Igmum · 11/03/2021 10:46

Absolutely agree, spot on OP. I can't vote because I'm on the app but YADNBU

PicsInRed · 11/03/2021 10:49

@Janeteapot

I would go further and call it terrorism.
YES ⬆️
rabbitcow · 11/03/2021 10:56

@TrialOfStyle

YANBU. It's interesting looking at places like Twitter, where you can clearly see hate against women is not a crime. If you post anything deemed homophobic, racist, transphobic - it's deleted. If you post rape threats they are allowed to remain. And until hate towards woman is treated as an actual crime, there will be no change on social media platforms.
CPS definition of terrorism:

"Terrorism is the use or threat of action, both in and outside of the UK, designed to influence any international government organisation or to intimidate the public. It must also be for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause"

Janeteapot is spot on.

BadLad · 11/03/2021 10:56

@newstart1337

Surely all crimes are hate crimes. I dont understand what that even means?
If I had a neighbour and I killed him because he caught me burgling his house, that's murder, but not a hate crime.

If I had a neighbour who was gay, and I killed him just because he was gay, then that's a hate crime, and gets harsher punishment. The reasons include the facts that the latter causes the entire gay community to feel less safe, and also a high chance of reoffending.

Hate crime doesn't mean just hating the victim. It means hating all of the group to which the victim belongs.

rabbitcow · 11/03/2021 10:56

@TrialOfStyle

YANBU. It's interesting looking at places like Twitter, where you can clearly see hate against women is not a crime. If you post anything deemed homophobic, racist, transphobic - it's deleted. If you post rape threats they are allowed to remain. And until hate towards woman is treated as an actual crime, there will be no change on social media platforms.
CPS definition of terrorism:

"Terrorism is the use or threat of action, both in and outside of the UK, designed to influence any international government organisation or to intimidate the public. It must also be for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause"

Janeteapot is spot on.

rabbitcow · 11/03/2021 11:01

Sorry, not only did I post twice, but I quoted the wrong poster!

AvocadoBathroom · 11/03/2021 11:05

@anamazingfind

I think there may be some misogyny in some male on female crimes, but to label it specifically as a hate crime is devaluing the term, and does a disservice to minorities who really need this kept specific.

What difference would it make anyway? Does adding hate to a rape charge raise its tariff?

Misogyny isn't a crime and that's what you're saying it should be

YABU.

"some" misogyny?

And as a minority I am agreeing with the OP who is specifically telling us she experiences it in the same way as she does racism.
What is the difference between calling a woman a slut and calling a BAME woman a Paki Slut?

Because as someone who receives both slurs I can tell you it's the same.

willibald · 11/03/2021 11:05

YANBU

AvocadoBathroom · 11/03/2021 11:06

What's the difference between beating up and raping a woman and beating up an ethnic minority? Why is one not defined as hate?