George Clooney calling for repatriation of Parthenon Marbles

[Dodgypainting]

And thinks because he made the film ‘Monument Men’ he is qualified to speak on this? Is it one more bandwagon he wants to jump on along with trying to sort out Sudan, the Environment, the Syrian refugee crisis and BLM. Why does he feel qualified to step into some of the most sensitive situations on the planet as a white guy with no expertise in the complex and sensitive issues he speaks out on? It’s ok to raise awareness but he should leave his wife to act on behalf of the Greek government re The Marbles and the plight of the Yazidis as she actually knows what she’s talking about. Where is the fear of doing more harm then good whenever these celebs speak out on some of their pet projects?

@NoWayHosier

What's in the purpose built museum at the moment? Is it completely empty?

It's got the ones Elgin didn't buy, and plaster casts of the BM ones. With the benefit of hindsight it's just as well Elgin did acquire some of the marbles as the ones which remained were damaged when the stores of powder blew up, but it's time to move on.

The obvious solution is for good casts to be made of the whole set for installation in the BM and the originals go to the museum in Athens now.

There's other great stuff in there too, remnants of previous temples on the Parthenon site etc. It's a great museum, as is the national archeological museum. Together with other sites such as the agora, Athens is simply wonderful.

@TakeTheCuntOutOfScunthorpe

We'll return the marbles when European and African Americans return the USA to indigenous people. When the Irish return Scotland to descendants of the Picts. When the cost of Covid is returned to the country it originated in.

Ooh that's a slightly inappropriate comment. Can you please reread what you put and ask yourself how Africans got to America in the 1st place.

I'll give you a clue, it was when the Europeans took them over on slave ships after raping, pillaging and burning their way through the African villages.
Your comment is vile and should be removed.

They didn't chose to go to America and they sure has hell didn't steal land from and displace the indigenous people of America.
Christ almighty. Learn a little bit before spouting your mouth off

@NutellaEllaElla

Is it just me that spent much of this thread envisaging little round marbles? I'm an educated lady and only just realised we're obviously talking about marble sculptures.

Growing up I imagined they were great big white marbles like the big stones the strongest men competitors try to run around with.

Thankfully my mother heard me ruminate about this and set me straight like she had to about me pronouncing Polish in the same way as polish

He may be right. But then so is 95% of the population who agree.

The difference is here we have another little trumped-up celebrity worried that there little mark on the world is about to get smaller so they ride on the back of public sentiment hoping to get held up as Saviour of a cause.

One if the things famous people can do is use their platform to raise awareness of things they care about or have a strong opinion about.

Do you think Marcus Rashford should have kept quiet about free school meals?

On the matter of the marbles this is about stuff we stole and therefore they should be given back to their rightful owners. This is not the same as thinking we shoujd kick everyone who isn’t indigenous out of America!

@TakeTheCuntOutOfScunthorpe

We'll return the marbles when European and African Americans return the USA to indigenous people. When the Irish return Scotland to descendants of the Picts. When the cost of Covid is returned to the country it originated in.

Not sure this is exactly 'in the spirit'

I think we should return the marbles and have the plaster cast ones from their museum instead. Most people probably wouldn't even notice the difference.

@RunHobbitRun

Until this thread I have imagined them to be the exact same. I’m so ashamed

YANBU - irrespective of the marbles, just generally find celebrities getting really emotional and acting as if their opinions are important is very boring and tiresome.

It was better when there was mystery and just saw them in films or pictures on red carpet but now with sm they all have this platform from which to preach and “educate” others. I don’t care any more than I would care about the opinion of anyone else also not qualified.

Obviously everyone can say what they want and is entitled to their opinions, but it’s the expectation that this is of any worth or somehow represents what we should all be thinking is bizarre and deluded. (I don’t have social media and so successfully avoid most celebrity opinions).

...which the Ottomans were using to store gunpowder. So possibly saved from destruction. yeah, that didn't end well, though the explosion was before the stones were removed, hence being so easy to pick up and 'buy'!

www.historytoday.com/archive/months-past/parthenon-blown

Still, think they should go back.

The plaster casts seemed to be poorer quality than I'd have thought could be produced nowadays.

What’s the colour of his skin got to do with it ?

The trouble is that every country has acquired art from other countries and there would be a lot of swapping to return them all to the country of origin. The largest museum in Athens is The National Archeology Museum which is stuffed with African art . Athenians admit they would have to return a lot of exhibits.
If we are returning stuff, can we get stuff back?

The British Museum is a palace of stolen loot.

They won't return the Rosetta Stone to Egypt.
They have a giant Easter Island statue that they refuse to return despite the islanders begging to be reunited with what they see as a lost family member.
They have more than 900 items from the Benin Bronzes.
Sacred Buddha heads decapitated from ancient temples in Indonesia.
All the artefacts spirited out of Mesopotamia's oldest cities

The list is endless. For several hundred years the British went around the world taking whatever they liked and now they basically rely on the law of 'finders, keepers' to justify it. It's ridiculous.

@Parkperson

The trouble is that every country has acquired art from other countries and there would be a lot of swapping to return them all to the country of origin. The largest museum in Athens is The National Archeology Museum which is stuffed with African art . Athenians admit they would have to return a lot of exhibits. If we are returning stuff, can we get stuff back?

Okay sure, what would you like returned?

No one is proposing that absolutely every item be returned. But if a country formally asks for an important object to be returned, then it should be.

Fair play to George. This was wanton vandalism and theft, anyone can raise awareness of that.

Personally, I would love to have Lord Leighton's Flaming June permanently in this country, preferably in his studio in Holland Park (National Trust)

He’s probably more informed than most due to his wife’s involvement. Why shouldn’t he speak if it’s an issue he believes in? Everyone has the right to campaign for causes they consider just.

www.metmuseum.org/exhibitions/listings/2020/british-galleries

Although The Met is feted for its collection of Egyptian antiquities

@Dodgypainting

But why does he feel he is going to be listened to? He’s an actor. It’s his wife’s case.

Because he’s entitled to an opinion and is a major international star. This thread only exists because he raised it.

When the Irish return Scotland to of the Picts.
You what?

What would happen if they were given back?
That is a genuine question by the way. I don't see what would be so awful and wrong in returning them to the country that they came from. Lots of art and historical artefacts tour the world to visiting museums. Why couldn't that happen with these?
Where are they planning on being shown/held if they were handed back? I thought they were due to go in to the new Louvre Museum Abu Dhabi. Why couldn't they go to that museum, on a permanent loan???

I think he's right, and I don't mind actors speaking out on causes - better than just ignoring what's wrong in the world, and sometimes it gets much needed publicity for an issue. I think they should have a bit of humility sometimes and not assume they are experts, and I think they should also avoid major hypocrisy like taking a private jet to a climate conference. Promoting Nestle doesn't sit well with being an ethical human being, but maybe that's only relevant if he starts giving his views on breastfeeding, or multinational companies stealing local water supplies, or the use of child labour in chocolate production.

@Parkperson

Personally, I would love to have Lord Leighton's Flaming June permanently in this country, preferably in his studio in Holland Park (National Trust)

It's not the same thing, is it? The painting was owned by a London art dealer in the 1960s and he sold it to a collector overseas. Not really what we're talking about here.

"Looted?"

From the British Museum website.

"By the early 19th century, the Ottoman Empire had been the governing authority in Athens for 350 years. Lord Elgin was the British Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire and successfully petitioned the authorities to be able to draw, measure and remove figures.

He was granted a permit (firman), and between 1801 and 1805 acting under the oversight of the relevant authorities, Elgin removed about half of the remaining sculptures from the ruins of the Parthenon. He also obtained permission to have removed sculptural and architectural elements from other buildings on the Acropolis, namely the Erechtheion, the Temple of Athena Nike and the Propylaia.

All of Elgin's collection of antiquities was then transported to Britain. His actions were thoroughly investigated by a Parliamentary Select Committee in 1816 and found to be entirely legal, prior to the sculptures entering the collection of the British Museum by Act of Parliament."