Anne Sacoolas reckons her offence would be a mere civil matter in the USA

[lljkk]

She's wrong. State of Virginia has vehicular involunary manslaughter that includes prison sentence up to 10 years. Simple reckless behaviour in charge of a vehicle can qualify.

Can't believe no thread about this already. I feel incensed at the statements from Sacoolas' lawyer!

I heard her lawyer on R4 this morning. They are just trying every play in the book to avoid facing any justice. Of course that they job if the lawyer... but morally she should face up to what she did.

Yes she is completely wrong! The lawyer seems to be doing plea bargaining which we don’t do in the UK in sentence but also it suggests she’s actually accepted her client has committed the offence of causing death by careless driving. This is in her circumstances so egregious that I would say prison is actually likely.

And it’s up to the judge!

They haven’t really got to the bottom of her leaving the country. That would be a crime itself surely if she didn’t actually have diplomatic immunity. They haven’t explained why she had this/why she said she had this.

If it was the other way around, they’d be baying for blood and extradition.

From what I’ve seen of Harry Dunn’s mum she doesnt seem intent that Anne sacoolas should go to prison, just that proper justice be done which both sacoolas and the us government seem intent on not gibing the family.
I’ve been where the accident happened and what gets me is that she drove quite some distance on the wrong side, it wasn’t that she accidentally pulled out onto the wrong side then the accident happened immediately, if she didn’t realise straight away then it was inevitable she was going to hit another vehicle.

I'm sure I've read in either a broadsheet or the BBC that it is largely true that she wouldn't have been prosecuted in the USA. Perhaps Virginia is an exception. Also, "reckless" can be defined differently in different places, I suppose.

In fact I've just looked at your link and they specifically say that "recklessness" means driving under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

Anne Sacoolas has no possible defence for her behaviour after the accident, regardless of the accident itself. Harry Dunn’s mother is saying she just wants it to be fair, ie a fair trial and a punishment decided by judge.

In Virginia Vehicular Manslaughter or Vehicular Homicide arises when one person causes the death of another while driving under the influence of drug or alcohol in violation of Virginia’s DUI laws

So it seems that link does not show what you said it does.

Sorry, I need to reconsider. Further down the page there is more about "involuntary manslaughter."

Most vehicular related charges of involuntary manslaughter involve actions alleged under 18.2-36 (3) (b). That would be accidently killing another during the improper performance of a lawful act. An example of Cheung vs. Com. In that case the Court of Appeals found that deliberate failure of a driver to disregard signs of drowsiness is evidence of a reckless disregard for human life

This ties in with what I remember reading previously. The use of the word "deliberate" I think means the standard is different. I'm still not convinced she would have been charged in the USA.

How a different legal jurisdiction treats an act is irrelevant anyway. You abide by the laws of the jurisdiction that you’re in. Anne Sacoolas and her lawyers need to read the room better let alone do some basic research about English law and the Highway Code. I feel for Harry Dunn’s parents having to pursue this.

I'm from the US and I'm pretty sure vehicular manslaughter is a felony almost everywhere, i.e. the possible sentence is more than one year. A judge can decide not to send someone to prison but that is individual circumstances, I wouldn't say it's typical not to go to prison.

Where I lived (DC) you don't have to be reckless (e.g. drunk), you can be convicted if you are negligent or careless. Driving on the wrong side of the road is careless!

She should be deeply ashamed of herself for not coming back. All her words of contrition are meaningless.

Though in the US this would also be a civil matter and she would be getting sued for 100 gazillion dollars.

The lawyer saying driving on the wrong side of the road is a minor misdemeanour and would not be criminally prosecuted in the USA seems to totally miss the point incident didn't happen there. Not only that but minimising the seriousness of driving on the wrong side of the road and killing someone, is a gross insult. I hope the family sue the arses off her.

I'm not a driver, but my husband who is refuses to drive outside the UK/Ireland for this very reason ie he is too scared he will cause an accident by driving on the wrong side of the road. If you can't ensure you would be driving on the correct side, you should use public transport and/or taxis.

I am still annoyed at the US’s refusal to extradite any of its citizens but expect other countries to hand over their citizens on demand.

I agree that her behaviour after the event eclipses her behaviour on that tragic night.

She caused his death unintentionally. Hiwever, she knowingly and callously tortures Harry Dunn's grieving family every day that she drags this out. That is far worse in my opinion.

Driving on the wrong side is a misdemeanor in its own right. If you kill someone while doing so, that's a completely different and more serious crime. This lawyer sounds ridiculous.

As mentioned above, references to USA law are irrelevant.
She was driving in the UK under UK law.

So the death of a human being is reduced to a 'civil matter'. How does she sleep at night?

She's a despicable person. I genuinely don't know how she can sleep at night or look herself in the mirror knowing that she killed a young man because she wasn't paying attention.

That she's done everything to evade any kind of consequence is even more appalling, as is the government on both sides of the Atlantic for failing to ensure she at least faces a courtroom in the district that the offence took place in.

Everyone involved in this apart from the Dunn's should be utterly ashamed, instead they are trying to justify what is basically vehicular murder.

I guess before I could find some sympathy for AS's panicked departure, desire to not be separated from her children or protect her own family. A moment of carelessness no malice in what she did. But to trot out this shit that somehow the UK law is 'unfair' or too 'harsh'. My sympathy stopped. Grrrr.

Specific example in Virginia prosecution of someone being found criminally liable for involuntary vehicular manslaughter when they knew they were very drowsy, not DUI, just sleepy.

Wikipedia has a USA section on vehicular homicide.

In fact I've just looked at your link and they specifically say that "recklessness" means driving under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

The lawyer cites extreme distraction.

Driving down the wrong side of the road for a few hundred metres into an oncoming vehicle sounds like being extremely distracted

@Spidey66

I'm not a driver, but my husband who is refuses to drive outside the UK/Ireland for this very reason ie he is too scared he will cause an accident by driving on the wrong side of the road. If you can't ensure you would be driving on the correct side, you should use public transport and/or taxis.

Malta and Cyprus are the same as us along with Australia and New Zealand. Also I think Japan drives on the right. Admittedly very far away and who knows when we will be travelling again.

Absolutely shocking woman. She seems to think that normal laws don't apply and that she can be her own police, judge and jury.

"Oh, but haven't I been punished enough, in my self-imposed exile back home?".

Reminds me of Roman Polanski.

By the way I have absolutely no interest in the outcome of her trial. If she's found not guilty, or gets away with a slap on the wrist - FINE, so be it! The point is she has to do the decent thing and actually go on trial like a normal member of society. It's a total insult to the whole country, as well as to Harry's family, that she thinks she can pick and choose.